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chris_tribble

An internet survey of LUF M8 experience to date

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Basic issue with survey design. We can combine the results at the end of the process, but the data sets have to be separate on entry.

 

Hi Chris,

 

I'm glad your sample size is growing. If I recall correctly, I was only able to get responses about 140 cameras. I went to take the survey but it doesn't allow me to talk about M8s that I did own or did use but no longer have in my possession.

 

Best,

 

Sean

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same with me, although I put a comment in that the first camera I had died after one day. not sure how you counted that. Dead-score one, living, score one for me.

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Chris,

 

Any update on statistics? How about the German stats?

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UPDATE

 

Dear All - thanks to Andreas there's a big hike in numbers. Latest satisfaction rating is:

 

Very satisfied 117 57.64%

Satisfied 65 32.02%

Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied 14 6.90%

Dissatisfied 6 2.96%

Very dissatisfied 1 0.49%

Total 203 100%

 

(sorry for layout)

 

Full summary report is attached as a PDF. Andrea - could you post this to the German forum?

 

oki it's in the german forum

cheers

andreas

 

Andreas - thanks from all of us. And also thanks to out multilingual friends on the German Forum.

 

Hi Chris,

 

I'm glad your sample size is growing. If I recall correctly, I was only able to get responses about 140 cameras. I went to take the survey but it doesn't allow me to talk about M8s that I did own or did use but no longer have in my possession.

 

 

Sean - I hadn't thought about that! Can I ask you to add a comment to the survey so that it gets on the record.

 

Thanks to all for posting (and to the moderator for making it sticky)

 

Best

Survey _ Leica M8 - issues_20070317.pdf

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Addendum ...

 

Participation stats are interesting.

Viewed 477

Started 236

Completed 218

Completion Rate 92.37%

Drop Outs (After Starting) 18

If you dropped out or have left some parts incomplete (only 203 counts on the final satisfaction scale) great if you could pass by and re-do the survey).

 

Best

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Chris,

 

While this isn't a completely scientific survey, my recollection, from back in my days as a marketing executive, is that anything over 1% is considered a very successful and representative survey and we would use those results to make marketing decisions. People have a natural resistance to doing surveys, even when it is in their best interest. Assuming Leica has sold around 10K cameras, this survey result should shake them up a bit as the problem percentages are way too high. The satisfaction numbers tell me that people generally have faith that Leica will fix the problems. If you take the same survey 2 months form now and the problems haven't been fixed I suspect you will see satisfaction numbers change dramatically. This survey should be invaluable to their marketing and engineering departments.

 

P.S. I notice that you are publishing the PDFs in the European paper size, any chance you could also publish one in the Yank paper size too (8.5x11)?

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Chris,

 

While this isn't a completely scientific survey, my recollection, from back in my days as a marketing executive, is that anything over 1% is considered a very successful and representative survey and we would use those results to make marketing decisions. People have a natural resistance to doing surveys, even when it is in their best interest. Assuming Leica has sold around 10K cameras, this survey result should shake them up a bit as the problem percentages are way too high. The satisfaction numbers tell me that people generally have faith that Leica will fix the problems. If you take the same survey 2 months form now and the problems haven't been fixed I suspect you will see satisfaction numbers change dramatically. This survey should be invaluable to their marketing and engineering departments.

 

P.S. I notice that you are publishing the PDFs in the European paper size, any chance you could also publish one in the Yank paper size too (8.5x11)?

 

John,

 

Huh? 1% response?

 

What school of statistics did that come from? Regardless of what management might think, 1% of samples is not statistically significant, IIRC

Or more correctly, the margin of error is so huge as to be not statistically valid.

 

And if they've sold 20K cameras, what then?

 

BTW--this doesn't mean the survey is not worthwhile. Within the self-selecting population here, there are obvious concerns, and obviously some qualititave problems with electronic failure that Leica should explore--and fix--regardless of numbers!

 

Anyway, project managers have some funny takes on things (I know, I took a lot of PMA courses at one point). The textbook, which I still have, actually says in black and white that qualities can be quantified.

 

So much for 4000 years of Western rational thought

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Jamie,

 

You obviously haven't conducted many marketing surveys of your customers. People HATE filling them out. That is why they often offer incentives to get you to complete them. Ever get a survey from the car manufacturer of the last new car you bought? Did you fill it out or circular file it? I have worked with several advertising agencies that conduct these and we targeted a 3% return. Maybe you have had better luck.

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Hi - agreed on statistical significance... but what we're getting is a clearer sense of how THIS community has experienced things - and as percentages of this population the numbers matter. So far as the total of M8 sales, what's more important here is that there is a very small number of failures, and that the proportions of LUF users who are satisfied or very satisied (and who have not experienced major problems) is a very large majority.

 

on international standards - I'm attaching a Letter size PDF of the latest summary... Hope it contributes to greater understanding on either side of the Pond.

 

Best - and do promote the survey to any other lists you're aware of.

Survey _ Leica M8 - issues_LETTER.pdf

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Thank you Chris for the letter size. It matches my printer settings a little better.

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Time for another bump...

 

Bumps no longer needed. This is a sticky.

 

I'm struck by the fact that 90% of the users who take the trouble to fill in the survey are exclusively RAW shooters, and more than half are on MACs. I'd be interested to know whether this characterizes all Leica M owners or just this forum's professional/serious photographers. It's certainly not the general population, and it's not photojournalists, I suspect.

 

I don't see how Leica could have made more than 10,000 units of the M8 to date. They have not (as far as you can tell from comments here) used serial numbers higher than 6000 so far. And the use of serial numbers does not seem to be dense or ordered. If you use the manufacturing rate of 50 per day that was talked about earlier, that is 10,000 units in a working year, more or less, with time out for upgrades, repairs, and shipping a few lenses.

 

scott

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Scott - agreed on the surprisingly high Raw shooter emphasis amongst respondents - though as a Windows user, I hope I'm professional / serious as a photographer ;-) ...

 

re the profile of users, I would not expect that many professional photojournalists who don't have a big investment in glass to be in a position to adopt an M system from scratch - and I don't know of any agencies or press groups which are providing Ms to their photographers. Any experience on this?

 

Hope the numbers keep on going up. We're at 254 since I posted on RFF last night.

 

I'll send out an update later today or Monday.

 

Best

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re RFF - only 1 response flagged there - so it's more likely our friends on the German Forum who are upping the numbers...

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Chris, given the question mark hanging over batteries and chargers and what, if any, contribution they are making to problems experienced with the camera, it might be good to capture the date stamp on users' batteries. It's stamped at one end, on the contact side, as Week Number/Year, for example, 45 06.

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Chris, given the question mark hanging over batteries and chargers and what, if any, contribution they are making to problems experienced with the camera, it might be good to capture the date stamp on users' batteries. It's stamped at one end, on the contact side, as Week Number/Year, for example, 45 06.

 

Mark - this is a good point. Maybe easiest will be to put up a second survey which people can fill in very quickly.

 

structure could be:

======================

M8 Battery experience survey

 

1/ Please list the battery reference numbers of any M8 batteries you own:

 

2/ Have you suffered any major failures with any of your M8 bodies

Yes / No

 

3/ If yes, please summarise the nature of the failure(s)

 

- non-recoverable failure (body freezes and cannot be recovered by any method)

- failure recoverable by removing the battery and re-inserting

- failure recoverable by removing the battery and replacing with a freshly charged battery

- other (please specify)

 

=====================

What do you think?

 

I would be happy to include the body number, but there are some members who are unhappy about this - maybe include it as an option?

 

Best

 

Before I put this up could Andreas, you and others give me any input?

 

I'd not add this to the orginal, but simply make it a small supplementary... easier to organise.

 

Best

 

C:

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Another thought - if the battery numbers are consistent, we could have this as a check list - easier to process. I've got:

 

42 06 H

43 06 H

44 06 H

 

BTW - I'm one of the lucky ones and no problems to date. Bought my M8 in January.

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hi chris,

yes good additional questions. especially the battery issue.

i dont think people (including me) will pass the body-number to the net. imagine people 'selling' (china connection) M8 via ebay with stolen body-numbers.

cheers

andreas

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Andreas - I tend to agree re body numbers... Maybe repeat the month when the camera was bought? This will set some thresholds?

 

Once I've got some more feedback I'll make the new mini-survey and post.

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