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chris_tribble

An internet survey of LUF M8 experience to date

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1) Add ISO knob where film rewind knob was.

2) Add manual shutter cocking (a-la film) lever.

3) Improve IR filter.

4) Make quieter (see 2).

5) Make full-frame

6) Add 2-4 more megapixels.

7) Slim it back to M6 size.

8) Fill in more details in EXIF.

9) Release new Visoflex.

10) Add flash socket (see 9!)

11) Seal screen better against dust.

12) Make rotating knob smoother. Mine is a little rough in one direction.

13) Change covering to M6-style leather.

14) Improve battery life a little (another 100-200 pictures).

15) Reduce size of battery charger for travelling, or offer second, smaller charger without all features, just wire.

16) Support for large SD cards and SDHC cards.

 

Other features (features others want, but which I feel no need for

):

 

a) External power feed

Built-in dioptre correction in the viewfinder

c) Easier to reach exposure compensation - via dial or arrows?

d) Not needing to press SET button to choose values

 

Ed, I am not sure how you back out a menu level if you don't press SET? Or do you mean just for making a single change? Then you can't abort the changes, but must always make a change. I am not sure that is preferable...

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In the missing 40% is almost 19% of had some trouble, but it recovered. That is pretty normal for digital cameras, I think. There is also 16% of "Other", which could be significant or not. Deep trouble as singled out by the categories was around 8.5%, which is still too high, but nothing to panic over. Leica is already moving on this. We have discussed this over and over in this forum.

 

Chris, the PDF seems to have everything twice.

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Chris,

 

The last count you gave on question 1 showed only 60% not having any major problems which implies that 40% have had major problems. I would think that any manufacturer would find a 40% major problem rate much more than unacceptable but more like crises panick time. I hope this trend does not continue. If it does, Leica better move quickly.

 

While true, still there is less than a 1 in 30 chance of getting a dead camera. If you purchase from a dealer you should get an immediate replacement

 

The dreaded camera locking up and never recovering is a 1 in 20 chance. This is everyones worse fear.

 

The fact is 9 out of 10 users will have no problem or have a seizure that the camera recovers from. Granted, a freeze that requires the removal of the battery to reset is a nail biter.

 

I figured it was worth a 1 in 10 chance at having my camera go to Sohm in order to enjoy my camera NOW rather than wait for all the bugs to be worked out. But then I am more risk tolerant than others. Being a paying beta tester doesn't bother me. In fact, I kind of enjoy it. But I can certainly understand how one could be more than a little annoyed at paying $5000 for a "not ready for prime time" camera.

 

The fact is, if you want a digital rangefinder, the M8 is it. Well I do have an Epson too. But lets face it this is sort of a "love it or leave it" situation. For the faint of heart, I would suggest continuing on with whatever you have until the M8's problems get sorted.

 

I admit this is easy for me to say since my camera works perfectly. I am keeping my fingers crossed and that should not be necessary for any camera, much less a Leica. But you have to pay to play the game, nobodies forcing you

 

Rex

still happy in the Peoples Republic of Berkeley

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I would say that the figures are not that worrying,assuming that the survey is skewed by people with problems more likely to respond. Less than 9% not bad, but Leica should do better in the coming period. As for the rest of the problems: welcome to the digital world....

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I am keeping my fingers crossed and that should not be necessary for any camera, much less a Leica. But you have to pay to play the game, nobodies forcing you

 

Well, that isn't exactly true. The rules of this "game" weren't known when I purchased the camera. What is the prize of this "game"?

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Ed, I am not sure how you back out a menu level if you don't press SET? Or do you mean just for making a single change? Then you can't abort the changes, but must always make a change. I am not sure that is preferable...

 

On the Canon you just set the desired value and you're ready to continue shooting half- or fully depressing the shutter button. You cannot abort those changes, but I bet that when changing ISOs, resolution or WB you do not browse back and forth whimsically between options or change your mind at the time you press set. I am pretty sure that every time you and most others access the Set menu to change ISOs, Rez or WB (I think these are the most used menu items by large) you positively know what you want to set. And any operation involving more keystrokes is IMO preferrable.

 

OTOH, the AE exposure compensation takes a too long process on the M8, involving too many button pushes and item menu choices. Of course, IMHO. You should be able to enter the + or - compensation in 1/3, 1/2 or full EV stops without even taking your eye off the viewfinder. All DSLRs I have used (at least since the venerable Nikon D1, and both N and C up to 1DMkII) had the exposure compensation mapped to one of their control dials. Even the R8/R9 allow to set +/- EVs without leving the VF. Even the M7 compensation system is simpler than the M8's, albeit a little awkward, but one ends by getting used to it, and it demands only a mental "remapping" to remember what to turn and in what direction.

 

Sorry for the long reply,

 

Ed

Meanwhile, we bump again this thread :-)

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I forgot to add in my suggestion ... perhaps Leica should move production/QC to Japan if they could let a third party handle the design. "Made in Germany" means absolutely nothing in today's economy, Bimmer, Merc have factories in China, Thailand ... and it isn't even ground breaking to Leica themselves 'cause they've done this before!

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Simon, plainly you are wrong. No one makes lenses as uniformly brilliant as Leica. Zeiss comes close with some, but not all. This is exactly why the plant has to be here, and not elsewhere.

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Greetings from unusually warm Geneva. We're up to 143 completed surveys and 149 start.... If any one's had problems can they PM me and I'll see if I can do any fixing. Great if the record can be as complete as possible...

 

I attach the most recent results... Really gratified that we're beginning to get a fuller picture of what the issues are + how many of us are satisfied. Clearly the very early adopters have had the hardest time... Those of us who bought in January or later have had the fewest problems.

 

BTW - I was shooting in incredibly low light this evening in an event called a Cafe Scientifique run by the British Council. Use a 5D with 70-200 on a tripod and the M8 as a walkabout with 75 lux and 28 apo cron. Not finished processing (thank the good lord for lightroom...) but will post some examples later ... Looking good on camera and AWB seems to have done a pretty good job - lighting was so mixed it was the easiest solution to give a starting point.

 

Again - to download the pdf, right click (or whatever you Mac users do...) and save locally.

 

Best

Survey _ Leica M8 - issues 20070314.pdf

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Chris, the PDF seems to have everything twice.

 

Carsten - the replies are there for Camera #1 and Camera #2 for those lucky enough to have one...

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Guest sirvine

Interesting results, esp. if you remove the "out of the box" problems from the analysis. Keep growing the sample size!

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Carsten - the replies are there for Camera #1 and Camera #2 for those lucky enough to have one...

Hmm, why are separate statistics needed for camera 2? I think they would be better off together, don't you?

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Thank you for this survey. As the sample grows issues are seen in perspective. But we have to agree that the percentage is somewhat high.

 

Have you grouped the cameras' serial numbers with the incidence of issues, as to see if there have been any positive changes during the production?

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Btw, although I am not sure why, I am not so comfortable telling my whole serial number to the survey. The last five digits is essentially the whole serial number, since they all start with 310 so far, and have seven digits... Now, if you had asked for the first five, no problem: 31022xx.

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Btw, although I am not sure why, I am not so comfortable telling my whole serial number to the survey. The last five digits is essentially the whole serial number, since they all start with 310 so far, and have seven digits... Now, if you had asked for the first five, no problem: 31022xx.

I guess I need to be enlightened on this serial number issue. I cannot think of a scenario whereby I can come to any personal harm if someone knows the serial number of my camera.

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Btw, although I am not sure why, I am not so comfortable telling my whole serial number to the survey. The last five digits is essentially the whole serial number, since they all start with 310 so far, and have seven digits... Now, if you had asked for the first five, no problem: 31022xx.

 

Carsten - sorry for this. I thought it was like credit cards where the last ones are used... I don't think it's going to invalidate things though - I was keen for people not to feel that their personal information was being asked for - hence no country information is included in the survey... Heigh ho . it's an imperfect world...

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Basic issue with survey design. We can combine the results at the end of the process, but the data sets have to be separate on entry.

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