The end of the world as we know it?

[carstenw]

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Erl,

 

and does the sun have little edgy bits at the bottom?

[tashley]

Erl,

 

and does the sun have little edgy bits at the bottom?

 

I'm clearly guessing not: this is (all joking aside) clearly either a sensor readout issue or a next-pixel-bloom issue: but look closely at the crop. The sun is smooth and almost OOF at the top then half way down it gets sharp and the melting pixel stuff happens. There are four shots where it does the same thing and it's not because the sun is exactly at the half-way line vertically, because in some shots it isn't.

 

So, a new glitch?

 

Answers on a.... (etc etc)

 

T

[tashley]

Damn ! the sun is melting before my eyes... What did you do Tim ? Wait till 2012 it'll get even better. This is not a rumour - Mayan calendar officially ends on 2012 ! Get your M8 ready. By then we all should have M11 in our hands guys.

 

 

Damn, I just put some VC into a calendar making company. Just when the smart money gets in...

 

[Riley]

Hi Jamie,

 

This was a first for me too, and erudite though Riley's explanation is I am pretty sure it's wrong: it was a very clear evening, on the coast, no smog, and a friend who was shooting my 5D took the same shot at almost exactly the same moment and there was none of that weird stuff. Plus, it is clearly pixel shaped...

 

Tim

 

your pretty sure based on .....?

 

the darker coloured banding of sky due to aerobic particulate is quite visible,

and is the section of sky the disc of the sun is passing through

the elongation is right on target there

invariably temperature inversion is not uncommon anywhere anyway

 

the 'weird stuff' at the bottom of the suns disk we have seen before here, its due to lack of AA filter

 

however

you believe what you like

[Jamie Roberts]

I'm clearly guessing not: this is (all joking aside) clearly either a sensor readout issue or a next-pixel-bloom issue: but look closely at the crop. The sun is smooth and almost OOF at the top then half way down it gets sharp and the melting pixel stuff happens. There are four shots where it does the same thing and it's not because the sun is exactly at the half-way line vertically, because in some shots it isn't.

 

So, a new glitch?

 

Answers on a.... (etc etc)

 

T

 

Tim--care to send one of the DNGs on by yousendit.com? Send it to yourself then post the link, and 200 of us anyway can have a go at it

 

Jamie

[erl]

Erl,

 

and does the sun have little edgy bits at the bottom?

 

Carsten, no, it dosen't. I 'assumed' that to be a product of the 100% crop reproduced on the internet. Maybe I am wrong. Not uncommon.

[carstenw]

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Hehe

 

It is not crop-induced in my case, but it is possibly Lightroom-induced.

[Riley]

we have seen popped pixels like that seen at the bottom of the suns disc before here, but it was way back in the green blob phase of the lifecycle. There was a good explanation of why it occurred then, hence it was left out of the more worrisome green blob discussion.

[luigi bertolotti]

I have not (yet...) M8, neither any Digital Camera, but I think there is no reason to be surprised by such an effect :

1) Sun shot directly

2) Sun in sunset, with the problems of atmosphere at variable density next the horizont, as other have explained very well.

3) CCD sensor with adiacent pixel at STRONG difference in luminosity.

 

Surely, something strange into a 100% crop will be seen... boy, remember that also with films you can have a series of strange behaviors in certain conditions... I would like to post (have difficult to scan) an enlarged picture of mine with a very luminous moon and some trees agains its low border (it was arising from beside a mountain: taken with M4 and Telyt 560...) : the sharp contrast between trees (black) and "sunny" moon gave some effect if you spotted with a lens the moon surface next to the trees... difficult to explain...sort of "light-shadow-borders"...

[tashley]

Tim--care to send one of the DNGs on by yousendit.com? Send it to yourself then post the link, and 200 of us anyway can have a go at it

 

Jamie

 

 

Hi Jamie,

 

Always a pleasure to have 200 people work on one of the most poorly composed and executed shots I've ever taken

 

http://download.yousendit.com/B924DA424F1E0D06

 

The offending file resides there. Take a look at what it does in C1 with all NR off. Truly scary!

 

Best

 

Tim

[tashley]

your pretty sure based on .....?

 

the darker coloured banding of sky due to aerobic particulate is quite visible,

and is the section of sky the disc of the sun is passing through

the elongation is right on target there

invariably temperature inversion is not uncommon anywhere anyway

 

the 'weird stuff' at the bottom of the suns disk we have seen before here, its due to lack of AA filter

 

however

you believe what you like

 

Hey Hey! I wasn't trying to offend you! It's just that I was already aware of the phenomenon to which you referred: I've taken about a zillion sunsets in my time on both film and many different digital cameras, and the sun has often been squishy, banded, blown etc etc. But I have never seen one edge of it clearly pixelated in this manner. So the reason I choose to believe my version is that Carsten has posted exactly the same phenomenon from a lamp, that I have a shot from a 5D taken almost exactly simultaneously that does not have a pixel bleeding edge, and that this is the first time I have seen the effect.

 

I'm perfectly willing to admit my theory wrong, and have posted it at yousendit for all to play with. And I do appreciate all opinions, help, knowledge sharing etc, lest it appear that I do not.

 

 

Peace

 

Tim

[Jamie Roberts]

I've never seen that pixelation either. Weird. It's not LR; C1 does exactly the same thing on this shot.

 

Thanks for sending it on, Tim.

[reddawn]

I have not (yet...) M8, neither any Digital Camera, but I think there is no reason to be surprised by such an effect :

1) Sun shot directly

2) Sun in sunset, with the problems of atmosphere at variable density next the horizont, as other have explained very well.

3) CCD sensor with adiacent pixel at STRONG difference in luminosity.

 

Surely, something strange into a 100% crop will be seen... boy, remember that also with films you can have a series of strange behaviors in certain conditions... I would like to post (have difficult to scan) an enlarged picture of mine with a very luminous moon and some trees agains its low border (it was arising from beside a mountain: taken with M4 and Telyt 560...) : the sharp contrast between trees (black) and "sunny" moon gave some effect if you spotted with a lens the moon surface next to the trees... difficult to explain...sort of "light-shadow-borders"...

 

According to the OP, the same shot with a Canon 5D produced no such effect, so this could well be peculiar to the M8 sensor. (no AA filter etc etc)

[tashley]

According to the OP, the same shot with a Canon 5D produced no such effect, so this could well be peculiar to the M8 sensor. (no AA filter etc etc)

And that's exactly why I respectfully disagreed with the suggestion that lenticular diffraction is to blame.

 

The sun is setting now - I'm going out with two M8s. If I ever return, my story shall be related here...

 

Tim

[tashley]

I've never seen that pixelation either. Weird. It's not LR; C1 does exactly the same thing on this shot.

 

Thanks for sending it on, Tim.

 

And thanks for looking Jamie... pretty isn't it?!

 

;-)

 

Tim

[Riley]

And that's exactly why I respectfully disagreed with the suggestion that lenticular diffraction is to blame.

 

The sun is setting now - I'm going out with two M8s. If I ever return, my story shall be related here...

 

Tim

 

you better have a take 2 on what i really said

there are 2 issues noted

 

• 1 atmospheric phenomena
  
• 2 popped pixels due to lack of AA filter
  

 

i said it twice i you still dont seem to see it

 

cheers

[tashley]

you better have a take 2 on what i really said

there are 2 issues noted

 

• 1 atmospheric phenomena
  
• 2 popped pixels due to lack of AA filter
  

 

i said it twice i you still dont seem to see it

 

cheers

 

 

Then we agree and all is settled. My remaining question relates to the fact that I had another camera with no AA filter, an SLR/n. and that never did this with sunsets.

 

Truth is, I know sunsets are cheesy but they are kinda cute and I would like to be able to shoot them from time to time...

 

And I just shot another one, sun behind cloud, with two M8s at the same time. My old M8 rendered the scene correctly as it always has, my new one did this, as it did yesterday:

 

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I think this qualifies as a problem.

 

Best

 

Tim

[Jamie Roberts]

I hope to heck your new M8 is defective. Cripes. And it focusses, too, right?

 

Jamie

[tashley]

I hope to heck your new M8 is defective. Cripes. And it focusses, too, right?

 

Jamie

 

 

Hi Jamie,

 

I was kind of hoping that it wasn't deffective but it's not looking good! Tomorrow will be torture test day and, ironically, the day on which my 35 cron arrives. Breath held... we soldier on!

 

T

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[Riley]

I don't see a problem with the camera. I really think if you insist on images of strong sun to the point of massive overexposure you are simply looking for trouble. The same goes for looking into any bright light source, reflector lights, searchlights etc.

 

This is most probably sensor blooming that can happen anywhere in the frame and is caused by excess electrons due to overexposure that spill into adjacent sites. The extreme contrast of the edge causes the high voltage bright side of one pixel, to affect the low voltage of the other pixels on the darker side, with the result that the electrons spill over.