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Stefan Daniel

Serviceability M8 & M8.2 displays

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I don't know the total numbers of M8 cameras sold, but Leica has sold 30,000 M9s.

 

Probably less M8 and M8.2 cameras in the field than that.

 

How many would be interested in that upgrade?

 

Well, those of us with working cameras probably not. Those that have defective cameras maybe, but some of those are already disposed of at Leica for trade ins.

 

So, let's just say that 20,000 M8s exist. Let's say that 15% have failed. Let's 2/3 of those are still in the field and let's say 100% of those would be willing to upgrade those for a fix.

 

The total number of upgrade kits would be 2,000 cameras.

 

Since I design and build electronics for my own business, I have an informed opinion on what the costs would be…

 

I would think 200 man-hours of design time is required (that is probably too little, but let's use that number), so we have $20,000 or so in engineering labor costs. Hardware for the first prototype is probably going to be $5,000. Now we have $25,000 in NRE.

 

Now we have to install these into the camera. We first need to train all the techs that will perform this modification. Let's put a low number of $5,000 for training expenses and documentation.

 

The hardware for the actual conversion will probably run about $250 for parts. Remember, we are doing a low production run here, so we get no cost savings for quantity at these figures. Double that for assembly and testing, so now we are at $500

 

If we add up the total NRE and training we get $30,000. Again, this number is probably far less than reality, but that is $15 per camera cost right there. Add $2000 cost for the kit using the same cost-model Leica uses on their cameras (they need to make it worth their while), and one hour of service time to install, which is $100.

 

My very low estimate for the upgrade is $2,115 per camera and you get a Frankin-M8. That's much more than what I paid for my M8. I can just buy another used one.

 

If you were smart you would take the Leica trade in allowance and run with that.

 

Your estimate is certainly low for the fitting. To replace the LCD the complete camera needs to be disassembled.....

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Your estimate is certainly low for the fitting. To replace the LCD the complete camera needs to be disassembled.....

 

I try to be optimistic.

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This question has probably been covered in the many posts about the screen problem so apologies if I have missed it, but does anyone know if the coffee stain can get so bad that it becomes impossible to view the menus.

 

I am an M8.2 user, I like it very much and would like to buy a second one; I could live with restricted use of the screen for reviewing pictures but if the use of the menus is compromised the camera would be effectively unusable.

 

Thanks, Mike

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Never heard of that happening - the defect is always described as cosmetic.

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Funny thing, I noticed that my work phone, an old Nokia, has what can only be described as the 'coffee stain' issue on its LCD. Seems it's not a Leica only issue!

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Funny thing, I noticed that my work phone, an old Nokia, has what can only be described as the 'coffee stain' issue on its LCD. Seems it's not a Leica only issue!

Have you been running any Java script, James?

 

Pete.

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As someone who is considering an M8.2 as my first M, are the sensors still available if a repair is needed? I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that they were not (on the La Vida Leica forum, I think). If true, this may well mean a hasty re-think about an imminent purchase!

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As far as I am aware there are sensors available, should one need one. Rather a rare event. Rumours are rife on the internet. Very few are based on facts....

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Your best bet is to ask Leica directly. I do recall reading something along those lines but it may have been a temporary stock issue or even someone confused between sensors and LCD's.

 

In any case, the cost of a working M8 is approaching the level which would probably make sensor replacement by Leica a more costly option than just buying another camera.

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As someone who is considering an M8.2 as my first M, are the sensors still available if a repair is needed? I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that they were not (on the La Vida Leica forum, I think). If true, this may well mean a hasty re-think about an imminent purchase!

 

That's what insurance is for.

 

Jeff

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Thanks James. The M8.2 I have in mind has a one year warranty, so that gives some peace of mind, however my hope is (as with my Digilux 2) that the camera will have a longer life than that. I realise that with digital cameras usable life-spans can be depressingly short (in comparison with film cameras) but if the Digilux is any guide then, as many others have found, I could get very attached to the M8 and want to keep it going for as long as possible.

 

Anyway, I'll email Leica as you suggest and see what the position is.

 

Geoff

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I know what you mean, I prefer to be able to repair things if at all possible.

 

Let us know what you find out.

 

The other thing to consider is that the sensor is more likely not to fail, as with the LCD. I'm currently on a 2007 MacBook, an antique by Apple standards, and it works just fine!

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Your estimate is certainly low for the fitting. To replace the LCD the complete camera needs to be disassembled.....

 

You may be forgetting this thread from a few years ago.

 

From Mark Norton...

 

"Given the tools and the will, replacing the LCD screen is 30 minutes at most:

 

- Remove the plastic base plate, 5 screws

- Remove the top, 2 screws, disconnect 1 flex print

- Peel back/remove the covering

- Remove 3 screws each side, 1 in the middle

- Split the clam shell, disconnect 2 flex prints, 1 power connector

- Remove the DSP board, 6 screws, 3 flex prints

- Remove 4 screws to release the LCD panel

 

Replace the panel and re-assemble.

 

The total work involved is much more linked to what else Leica would choose to do to bring the camera up to date, align it and test it.

__________________

Mark"

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/206627-m8-lcd-display-3.html#post2148230

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Unfortunately I have to get up this  topic.
I bought my second hand M8.2 in January 2015, and yesterday afternoon appeared the infamous coffee stain on the display... According to the serial number, it should have been produced in early 2009.
I was hoping to have dodged the issue, believing that the display of my M8.2 had stood the test of time, unfortunately ... it is not so!
As known, it is not possible to repair the display. At the moment the stain is fairly lightweight and allows you to easily change the menus for camera setting.   According to many post I read around, the stain should not gets worse with time, so I think I can live with it. Any different experience? In any case, has anyone updated information on Leica policies on the issue?
 
Silvano

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.... has anyone updated information on Leica policies on the issue?

Since the pane is no longer produced, Leica can not obtain any replacement parts. We have recurring reports by users of the coffee stains remaining stable or even disappearing. The last I heard from Leica that you could ask for an upgrade offer. I hear from customers that they thought that the offer was rather more expensive than they had hoped for.

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Pop has the latest.

 

I've done extensive research and questionnaires on the problem. I went back through all the archives looking at this phenomenon.

It is never reported as getting worse.  It seems to suddenly appear, and for many (most?) can disappear completely, over a few months.

 

My thinking is due to heat shock.  It is a multi-layered screen (someone said made by Casio) (?), with bonding cements, etc between. They can slip and slide in the noon-day sun. Or an arctic evening, coming back to a warm room. In Australia I have picked my M8 out of my Leica leather camera bag (black) and found the camera very uncomfortable to hold...it's very hot. Keep in mind it's one of the early screens for any camera...and of course was out-sourced by Leica.

 

 

Just relax.  It's still working, and may well come back to full cosmetics.  Try and see it as a "Badge of Honour" having a great camera that is so "old". I mean I've got a couple of spots on my complexion too...

 

all best..

Edited by david strachan

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You may be forgetting this thread from a few years ago.

 

From Mark Norton...

 

"Given the tools and the will, replacing the LCD screen is 30 minutes at most:

 

- Remove the plastic base plate, 5 screws

- Remove the top, 2 screws, disconnect 1 flex print

- Peel back/remove the covering

- Remove 3 screws each side, 1 in the middle

- Split the clam shell, disconnect 2 flex prints, 1 power connector

- Remove the DSP board, 6 screws, 3 flex prints

- Remove 4 screws to release the LCD panel

 

Replace the panel and re-assemble.

 

The total work involved is much more linked to what else Leica would choose to do to bring the camera up to date, align it and test it.

__________________

Mark"

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/206627-m8-lcd-display-3.html#post2148230

And therein lies the crux. The sensor must be aligned extremely exactly to the body to ensure rangefinder accuracy. Leica uses sophisticated tools and quite some time for the process.

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