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Stefan Daniel

Serviceability M8 & M8.2 displays

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no thank you. we don't need to take that many steps backwards....

 

I know you've recently bought your M8, and your post-purchase justification Is in full force - but you might think of toning it down a bit eh? I'm kinda tired of you referring to film enthusiasts as 'Luddites' for instance - especially as I work with digital media in my professional life.

 

Now I love my M8 - but if anything went wrong with it, I'd consider an offer on an MP as an upgrade - an M9 would be a downgrade for me.

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I know you've recently bought your M8, and your post-purchase justification Is in full force - but you might think of toning it down a bit eh? I'm kinda tired of you referring to film enthusiasts as 'Luddites' for instance - especially as I work with digital media in my professional life.

 

Now I love my M8 - but if anything went wrong with it, I'd consider an offer on an MP as an upgrade - an M9 would be a downgrade for me.

 

there has been a TON of weird negativity thrown around here for the whole LCD debacle, much of which has arisen from film M users basically trying to look down upon digital users. IIRC, digital Ms have been called "disposable"....really? too funny....if you noticed I said real photographers and luddites....two separate types of people-----but a very fair assessment....

 

offering an MP to me for a broken M8 would most definitely be a downgrade for me personally----as I don't use film. I'm not sure how offering that would be a valid option in any way.

 

how and why would an M9 be a "downgrade"? I'm not sure I understand.....

 

yes I'm a noob with an M8. that doesn't mean my points aren't valid.

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Why do I have visions of posters jumping hurdles, when it is merely a flat race?

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I don't understand it. I would think that as we are all Leica customers, we should be in general agreement that the situation for M8 users isn't good enough.

 

Expectations of what is acceptable may vary of course, but how anyone can say the current situation is acceptable is beyond me.

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For the same reason that when my consultants submit their expenses, the guidelines for which are "reasonable" rather than absolute, you get one idiot claiming for £25 of dover sole and a £17 glass of brandy and someone else claiming for a Tesco ready meal and a bottle of pepsi. It's all subjective.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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Well, everybody is entitled to his/ her opinion. Aren't we going around in circles now?

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For the same reason that when my consultants submit their expenses, the guidelines for which are "reasonable" rather than absolute, you get one idiot claiming for £25 of dover sole and a £17 glass of brandy and someone else claiming for a Tesco ready meal and a bottle of pepsi. It's all subjective.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Give them stricter guidelines. My company states the limit of expense we are allowed to claim for breakfast, lunch or dinner when travelling. Hospitality is along the same lines or pre authorised if we are intending anything more lavish.

 

As you say "reasonable" can mean anything.

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I don't understand it. I would think that as we are all Leica customers, we should be in general agreement that the situation for M8 users isn't good enough.

Expectations of what is acceptable may vary of course, but how anyone can say the current situation is acceptable is beyond me.

The situation of M8 users who cannot afford the "forced upgrade solution" seems at least to inspire indifference if not derision for whatever reason. First time i have this feeling on the LUF.

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The situation of M8 users who cannot afford the "forced upgrade solution" seems at least to inspire indifference if not derision for whatever reason. First time i have this feeling on the LUF.

 

Correction: They might inspire indifference if not derision by some people. It's not an official stance and not even - as I perceive it - a sentiment expressed by a majority. It's just some people.

 

Other comment: My impression is that the affordability by itself is an issue for a minority of the members protesting here. This does not make their opinions less important. It does not make the opinions of the members who protest for other reasons than affordability unimportant, either.

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Quite a few members (non M8 owners mostly it seems) if you read through the threads. Lots of support for Leica doing their best. Hmmmmm

 

i don't think you will find an M8 owner who finds it "acceptable"....however we are also not declaring a state of disaster as many non-M8 owners are in these threads. Then there are people saying the digital Ms are "disposable"...i wonder who said that? *nudge nudge*

Edited by iedei

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Give them stricter guidelines. My company states the limit of expense we are allowed to claim for breakfast, lunch or dinner when travelling. Hospitality is along the same lines or pre authorised if we are intending anything more lavish.

 

As you say "reasonable" can mean anything.

 

I prefer to treat people as grown-ups; mind you, I don't expect anyone to claim for breakfast or lunch any more than I will reimburse for a drink out of a minibar, a newspaper, laundry or the porn channel in the hotel. There is a difference between guidelines and unacceptability that is filled by commonsense. If you treat people like untrustworthy idiots they behave like untrustworthy idiots; I would rather be reasonable.

 

Which brings me back to this thread. I don't think anyone has said per se that the situation is acceptable. I for one have stated I have sympathy with those affected. But something being unacceptable does not automatically make it rectifiable and kicking and screaming only ever gets you sore feet and a sore throat.

 

Ultimately, Leica cannot change the past or the present but they can plan assiduously for the future.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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I prefer to treat people as grown-ups; mind you, I don't expect anyone to claim for breakfast or lunch any more than I will reimburse for a drink out of a minibar, a newspaper, laundry or the porn channel in the hotel. There is a difference between guidelines and unacceptability that is filled by commonsense. If you treat people like untrustworthy idiots they behave like untrustworthy idiots; I would rather be reasonable.

 

The companies I've worked for have all had expenses limits noted in the staff manual. I don't see a problem with working within a set limit - it's fair to everyone, and it avoids the kind of problems you've mentioned with some people seeing how far they can push it.

 

For example, breakfast is claimable if I have to leave home before 6am to get to an appointment. Limit of £5. If I do claim it, it's usually just a coffee and croissant on the hop. Lunch/dinner expenses are allowed depending how long you are away from the office/home, usually if it's an overnight trip.

 

Minibar drinks, papers, porn, etc are definately off the list.

 

Anyway, getting way OT again!

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Is it just me, or has this LCD on the M8 problem seemingly brought out the worst in people?

 

There really is no need, IMHO, to snipe at each other.

 

I would agree that there is a lot of bad tempered comments on this subject, and I for one,(with varing degrees of success) try very hard not to respond to the stick being poked between the bars, but sometimes one can get the feeling that if one dares to criticise Leica, then one can expect a visit from the four men on horses. No stick poking intended, just an answer to a subject that had got me for one, more than a little concerned

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Agreed. The thread has been going round in circles for some time now. Everything has been said, but no further comment from Leica.

 

As an outsider, the M9 replacement proposal looks pretty reasonable to me if the pricing is as reported. If the pricing is not correct then I can see why you'd be upset.

 

For those who are still unhappy or have lost faith in the company, what more specifically should Leica do to rectify the situation and re-establish credibility? (Whether you have an M8 or not?)

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I'm not sure whether Leica think the issue is dealt with but I remain highly critical of the position they have taken.

 

My simple 3 point plan for them is as follows:

 

1. Leica need to accept that statements made about products made to last a lifetime are incorrect and misleading to customers and should not be used to describe their products.

 

2. Leica need to make a clear statement about how long they guarantee spare parts availability for current and future digital products and then back that up with inventories of quality checked parts. I think most here would regard 10 years from end of production as a workable limit for the M9 on.

 

3. In the special case of the M8, Leica should retain the M9 upgrade offer but supplement it with a lower cost alternative where Leica will obtain used parts from used M8s to keep broken M8s working. Users would have to accept that replacement parts might be used, pay a lower price and receive a shorter repair warranty.

 

I think these changes would be the best solution in the circumstances and of course, someone would have to decide how long this would run for the M8. I would say 6 years from end of production would be a good compromise. I daresay Leica and the bean counters would come up with a thousand reasons why not but it's only in this way they can salvage their reputation.

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