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Stefan Daniel

Serviceability M8 & M8.2 displays

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Certainly - a not quite serious hyperbole. But I cannot find a 3000-4000 $ discount ungenerous. And you do get a considerably newer and better camera, which cannot be a freebie.

Maybe Leica should offer a buyback - Used M8 price, sometimes minus repair cost. Between 500 and 2000 $. What are you going to say to that?

Of course, such overstatement must be jest. It is certainly not pertinent to this discussion.

 

For what it is worth, some years ago we had a case in Toyota where the V6 experienced a sudden and complete loss of oil due to a failed main oil line. There was a certain location on the assembly line for a brief time when the wrong fitting was used. It effected only about 400 cars. Toyota replaced the engines for each customer right away. Free, of course.

 

Why should Leica not offer the same?

 

And you know the Lexus is just another Toyota with special (oh, tho special) interior appointments.

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So if your Yaris breaks down and cannot be repaired for some reason Toyota owes you a Lexus for free?

I your Yaris breaks down and cannot be repaired for inherent vice acknowledged by Toyota, Toyota owes you another Yaris of same vintage as yours or the value of the latter.

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The coffee-stain screens are an irrelevance to me. As far as I'm concerned, from now on I'm gonna have to think twice every time I take the M8 out. From now on, any drop or collision with a tabletop has the potential to cost not $800 but $3000 or $4000. Furthermore, there'll be an extra amount to pay, as Leica apparently feels the need to penalize 'accidental' damage - even though the owners are not to blame for the extra cost.

 

 

At this point I feel the same about thinking twice to take and use the M8 outdoors, now. Not happy about it, as I really like my M8.

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Certainly - a not quite serious hyperbole. But I cannot find a 3000-4000 $ discount ungenerous. And you do get a considerably newer and better camera, which cannot be a freebie.

 

The 'next' Leica might not be better. See the end of my post above.

 

Maybe Leica should offer a buyback - Used M8 price, sometimes minus repair cost. Between 500 and 2000 $. What are you going to say to that?

 

Of course the amount must be pro-rated to consider how much use the customer got from it - condition and all that. In one respect it would be a good idea because it would remove the problematic cameras from the market. I should think that Leica would like that.

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I think you are misreading this. There are no sensors failing because they are faulty - this probably refers to the coffee stain. I interpret this to mean that this exhausted the supply with no option of replenshing it to the needed level.

My exegesis of SD's text:

1. Leica decides to switch producer

2. Sufficient stock is bough

3. After a year cameras start developing coffee stains

4. lLca identifies a faulty lot, pulls it, depleting the stock

5. There are more screens to be replaced depleting stock further

6. The production has been discontinued At the time of identifying the faulty lot), making it impossible to replenish the stock

 

Jaapv - I re-read Stafan's post and I think your interpretation is correct. Stefan did specifically say the lot was pulled from service stock and not production stock. I misread this line. There is no evidence in Stefan's statement that Leica was aware of this situation when they were in a position to do something about it. I stand corrected

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As another M8 user, I feel a little sad to know that my trusty M8 can be transformed to a nice brick if the LCD fails. Obviously, I hope that Leica would take care of M8 owners...Meanwhile, I suggest a posible alternative:

Please, Leica, write a software (Mac and PC compatible) to use ALL the camera menus. This way, if our belowed LCD fail, we could keep using our cameras in emergency mode. Thanks.

Edited by jtorrents

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Meanwhile, I have had a jolly good time in Prague today with my little old II... three rolls shot

I don't think there's a supply problem with replacement LCD screens for any of the screwmount Leicas.

 

Pete.

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So if your Yaris breaks down and cannot be repaired for some reason Toyota owes you a Lexus for free?

 

Of course not, but the comparison in this case is absurd.

 

1. The Yaris didn't cost a small fortune compared to other cars, nor close to the cost of the Lexus when both were new.

 

2. The Yaris didn't come with a commitment to lifetime use.

 

3. If the windshield broke on the Yaris, the company would find a way to fix it rather than replace it (especially given their lifetime concerns).

 

4. But if that failed, the company should in good faith find a way to compensate the owner who doesn't want the Lexus.

 

Jeff

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The issues involved here are simply stated;

1) risk of single sourced parts on small production volumes like the M8/M9

2) built-in obsolescence with consumer electronics

Leica will for sure be stretched to provide service for an M9 over the next 10 years. Who knows what a camera will even look like in 2022? Ok, my M4-P will still work but the EU may have outlawed film processing by then!

Bottom line, you pays your money and takes your chances - with Leica too. Like it or lump it, that's a fact of life.

Colmac

Edited by colmac

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The coffee-stain screens are an irrelevance to me. As far as I'm concerned, from now on I'm gonna have to think twice every time I take the M8 out. From now on, any drop or collision with a tabletop has the potential to cost not $800 but $3000 or $4000. Furthermore, there'll be an extra amount to pay, as Leica apparently feels the need to penalize 'accidental' damage - even though the owners are not to blame for the extra cost.

 

May I recommend installing an ACMAXX screen protector? Much better than the Giotto's (I had three of those break in a row, the ACMAXX just keeps going). Even better yet doubling up on them. Still no guarantee but nothing in life is and would probably put up with a lot of abuse. (I always found the whole sapphire thing to be a joke considering how poor the actual screen quality is compared to the cost of upgrading the cover glass).

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(I always found the whole sapphire thing to be a joke considering how poor the actual screen quality is compared to the cost of upgrading the cover glass).

 

Absolutely. Especially now that we know that the camera's life beyond ten years from end of production is just a hope and a prayer.

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The fair market value of a used but excellent condition M8 should be the most that you can expect from Leica as a trade-in however I'm sure that there is goodwill margin in any new product that can sweeten the deal and make everyone happy.

 

This is all about retaining customer loyalty and I'm confident that Leica will do the right thing should my M8 ever fail and become unrepairable. Until then I'll continue to use my camera and cherish my collection of lenses that define Leica IQ more than the body that captures and stores the image. (I do like the old style ergonomics, though.)

 

I'm not worried that I won't be treated fairly by Leica in the future.

 

Website issues that affect a few owners can taint the pleasure of product ownership for everyone. I'm learning to let these tempests blow over after similar experiences at forums for other products. Social media is not that great at times.

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Absolutely. Especially now that we know that the camera's life beyond ten years from end of production is just a hope and a prayer.

 

I don't share the feelings of negativity on this general issue.

 

10 years beyond the end of production, which could well mean twelve or thirteen years in practice, is a pretty good deal for a digital camera.

 

Look at the price of a ten year old digital camera now: they're almost free because virtually no one thinks they're worth paying money for. Pretending digital cameras are comparable to mechanical ones and then complaining about the fact that they aren't is fruitless and delusory.

 

Ten years+ is good enough for me, given that no one makes me buy the thing in the first place.

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Pretending digital cameras are comparable to mechanical ones...(snipped)...

 

Of course, and Leica should know better.

 

Jeff

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Precisely. It was Leica that made the comparison to their mechanical cameras, to promise a lifetime of use for their digitals. Forgive my negativity, but I would not feel this way had Leica been upfront about their ten-year serviceability policy for my M9. Today is the first I hear of it! I was led to expect something rather different when I bought the camera.

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Precisely. It was Leica that made the comparison to their mechanical cameras, to promise a lifetime of use for their digitals. Forgive my negativity, but I would not feel this way had Leica been upfront about their ten-year serviceability policy for my M9. Today is the first I hear of it! I was led to expect something rather different when I bought the camera.

 

Well, it is a minimum of ten years from the end of production which hasn't happened yet, so its a fair bit more than ten years for any current owner.

 

I'm surprised its that long, to be honest.

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Interesting to find out how a Leica dealer would solve a 12 months warranty on a used sold M8......in case the LCD dies:confused:

 

John

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I'm an M8 user. I've stayed out of the discussion until we could hear from Leica officially. I pretty much accepted that my M8 wouldn't be repairable after 10 years. But not after only the five years I've owned mine. Still, if reliable replacement LCDs don't exist, what can we do? While I don't like the situation, it seems that Leica has come up with a reasonable policy to deal with it.

 

But we must all understand that the cost of a broken M8 LDC just went up considerably. If you were probably going to upgrade at some point anyway, it's OK. If the M8 stretched you financially and the LCD dies, and you're not able or willing to lay out close to the cost of another brand-new M8 to upgrade, you have a problem.

 

Part of the anger expressed in this thread is really about the disconnect between what the Leica brand/mark stands for, and the realities of digital technology for a small company in a marketplace where the rules have been made by the giants of Japan, Inc. Leica marketing still capitalizes on the concept of the "Lifetime Leica," but that just isn't real any more. Leica's heritage still lives in its optics and rangefinder, but as for the electronics, including the LCD, no.

 

We will all be better off if we accept this reality. When you buy a Leica today, you are buying a camera that is partly the old Leica, and partly a piece of disposable consumer electronics. The company doesn't have the deep pockets and resources that Brand C and N do. So while you can be "made whole" again if your M8 LCD dies, it's going to be in the form of a pro-rated discount on the next model, and it's gonna cost you.

 

So photographers, take Leica marketing, mythology and mysticism with several grains of salt. One-percenters and bling-chasers, keep believing, it will be good for Leica.

 

By the way, hello to all my fellow HP RPN calculator users! I'm afflicted with that disease, too.

 

--Peter

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