algrove Posted June 10, 2012 Share #1 Posted June 10, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone have some guidance on a workflow for SEP2 while using PS (or LR) for DNG images that are obviously in color which you will convert to B&W? I am just starting to use SEP and find I am abusing the sliders. I have seen examples of SEP with M Monochrom DNG files, but just wondered if anyone has perfected using SEP with M9 DNG files. Do you start with high key or low key files, if for example you had a bracketed shot? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Hi algrove, Take a look here Silver Efex Pro 2 Workflow for DNG. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
esquire53 Posted June 10, 2012 Share #2 Posted June 10, 2012 I use to adjust the global image first in the raw converter and most of the time, I change tones and zonal brightness or contrast with vivenza, since the b&w conversion is affected by the color you have from start, rather then using the filter in SEF. Besides that, I use the level and curve for the low and high end adjustment, rather than the film library. I try not to add any grain in SEF. not even close to real grain from film. Good luck and regards Uwe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 10, 2012 Share #3 Posted June 10, 2012 I use Silver Efex all the time for converting M9 files into monochrome and so long as you deliver it a file with all the tones from shadow to highlight it will do whatever you want. Is there a type or look of image you are trying to create? There is no perfect way to use it because there is no perfect datum point for a B&W image, each is the result of the individuals vision. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted June 12, 2012 Steve, When I have M9 images that I feel will show better in B&W those are the ones that I want to SEP. I do like contrasty images and hope SEP will give me that type of result in some images. I really wanted to hear what sliders other at least start with and how many are used most often to achieve whatever results are wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 12, 2012 Share #5 Posted June 12, 2012 Ahh well if you want 'contrasty' there are a few things to play with. Obviously the first is to start with a contrasty pre-set, any will do. Even if it is one with a fancy border or grain don't worry, so long as you like the general look of it because you can remove the grain and/or border in the right hand menu list. The pre-sets are just starting points and to give you ideas. The other thing you can try after importing an image (just a normal image, it shouldn't be contrasty) is to just go direct to the sliders on the right. There is the overall contrast slider, and underneath 'Amplify White' and 'Amplify Black'. These put the emphasis on where you want the contrast to come from, maybe you want to bring the whites out, so you 'Amplify White's', etc. Then there is the 'Structure' slider, this brings out mid-tone contrast. It can be easily overdone but it is very important in making a contrasty image. It is superb for bringing out cloud tones in a flat grey sky. You can adjust Highlight, Mid, and Shadow tones individually which is useful. At the bottom of these main sliders are two marked 'Shadows' and 'Highlights'. In making a contrasty image you ideally don't want to blow out the highlights so you can protect them with this slider, it gives a limit as to how 'white' you want your whites. Same for the Shadow slider. Going back to the top of the sliders to 'Brightness', use this initially to get an overall level of brightness for the image, but use it during and at the end just to tweak the image as you go. Personally I wouldn't recommend using the 'Dynamic Brightness', 'Soft Contrast' or 'Fine Structure' sliders either at all, or until you are well versed in SEP, they can add ugly artifacts if not used with extreme subtelty but can be useful for very very fine adjustments. When you get the image how you like it there are another few things to think about. Firstly a contrasty image often needs 'holding in' around the border with some vignetting or burning of the edges. It can be harsh or subtle, but either way it draws the eye back to the centre of the image or to where you want the emphasis placed. So go down to the bottom of the sliders and play with 'Vignetting' and 'Burn Edges'. Be subtle at first, maybe just choose one of the pre-sets. That should get you close or may get you all the way towards a final image. But there are other things, like the fantastic 'Control Point' options for adjusting selected areas of the image with nearly all of the options available in the universal slider menu. So if after all your fiddling with the image you find maybe somebody's face is too dark, place a control point over the face, adjust the size of the area to be brightened, then use the control point slider to bring out the face, lower or increase the contrast etc. Nik have a set of short videos to take you through a lot of the functions of SEP and I recommend you watch these as well. Godd luck. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 12, 2012 Share #6 Posted June 12, 2012 Steve, that's a really well thought out answer, and I absolutely agree with your recommendation to use caution with the "Structure" slider and extreme caution with the "Fine Structures" slider. Too often these adjustments are overdone and give an unnatural, psudo HDR look that is hard to look at. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted June 12, 2012 Share #7 Posted June 12, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ahh well if you want 'contrasty' there are a few things to play with. Obviously the first is to start with a contrasty pre-set, any will do. Even if it is one with a fancy border or grain don't worry, so long as you like the general look of it because you can remove the grain and/or border in the right hand menu list. The pre-sets are just starting points and to give you ideas. The other thing you can try after importing an image (just a normal image, it shouldn't be contrasty) is to just go direct to the sliders on the right. There is the overall contrast slider, and underneath 'Amplify White' and 'Amplify Black'. These put the emphasis on where you want the contrast to come from, maybe you want to bring the whites out, so you 'Amplify White's', etc. Then there is the 'Structure' slider, this brings out mid-tone contrast. It can be easily overdone but it is very important in making a contrasty image. It is superb for bringing out cloud tones in a flat grey sky. You can adjust Highlight, Mid, and Shadow tones individually which is useful. At the bottom of these main sliders are two marked 'Shadows' and 'Highlights'. In making a contrasty image you ideally don't want to blow out the highlights so you can protect them with this slider, it gives a limit as to how 'white' you want your whites. Same for the Shadow slider. Going back to the top of the sliders to 'Brightness', use this initially to get an overall level of brightness for the image, but use it during and at the end just to tweak the image as you go. Personally I wouldn't recommend using the 'Dynamic Brightness', 'Soft Contrast' or 'Fine Structure' sliders either at all, or until you are well versed in SEP, they can add ugly artifacts if not used with extreme subtelty but can be useful for very very fine adjustments. When you get the image how you like it there are another few things to think about. Firstly a contrasty image often needs 'holding in' around the border with some vignetting or burning of the edges. It can be harsh or subtle, but either way it draws the eye back to the centre of the image or to where you want the emphasis placed. So go down to the bottom of the sliders and play with 'Vignetting' and 'Burn Edges'. Be subtle at first, maybe just choose one of the pre-sets. That should get you close or may get you all the way towards a final image. But there are other things, like the fantastic 'Control Point' options for adjusting selected areas of the image with nearly all of the options available in the universal slider menu. So if after all your fiddling with the image you find maybe somebody's face is too dark, place a control point over the face, adjust the size of the area to be brightened, then use the control point slider to bring out the face, lower or increase the contrast etc. Nik have a set of short videos to take you through a lot of the functions of SEP and I recommend you watch these as well. Godd luck. Steve It has to be simpler and equally effective using Lightroom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 12, 2012 Share #8 Posted June 12, 2012 Speaking as somebody who never got to understanding lightroom, I find that remark slighly puzzling. Steve's explanation sounds superbly simple to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted June 12, 2012 Steve and Stephen Thanks for the very thorough reply. I now have no excuses not to try it in earnest. Assume for high key results one basically does the opposite? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted June 12, 2012 Share #10 Posted June 12, 2012 Speaking as somebody who never got to understanding lightroom, I find that remark slighly puzzling. Steve's explanation sounds superbly simple to me. Like most software, there is an unavoidable learning curve and my remark was really aimed at those members who already use Lightroom for most of their digital processing, Jaapv. The more I explore its features, the more interesting and productive it becomes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 12, 2012 Share #11 Posted June 12, 2012 Possibly. I have been using Photoshop for more than a decade now - I'll just stick with CS6, I guess, and C1. And in a few weeks SEP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 12, 2012 Share #12 Posted June 12, 2012 I think this LuLa article by Charles Cramer on LR 4 is very straightforward and easy to comprehend. The new LR4 controls will be more familiar to PS users. Controlling b/w tonalities are one of the significant improvements. And, for color work, the new controls (local and global) for defringing, CA and color temp/tint help to minimize my need to use PS much anymore. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 12, 2012 Share #13 Posted June 12, 2012 Yes I know the article, and yes, I have been using LR4 and yes, I have Martin Evening on LR4 and read it. However, it has not made me like the program. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 12, 2012 Share #14 Posted June 12, 2012 However, it has not made me like the program. But that's a different point than not "understanding" the program....your post #8. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 12, 2012 Share #15 Posted June 12, 2012 Well, not liking it makes that I have to think through/look up each and every step, whereas CS is wholly intuitive for me. Maybe "not mesh with"would be the best description. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 12, 2012 Share #16 Posted June 12, 2012 Options are good. And the good news is that all options are improving all the time. Different strokes. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeingeye Posted June 12, 2012 Share #17 Posted June 12, 2012 If you are accessing SEP as a filter from within a version of CS which supports it, convert the image to a smart object first, optionally in its own layer. That way, you will be able to go back later and make further adjustments if you want to. Once you find a combination of SEP adjustments which you like, it is worthwhile creating a custom template so that you can readily recall the settings. My preferred workflow is to convert from Raw in LR4, open the image in CS5, and then go into SEP 2. I have a couple of custom templates which I use as starting points. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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