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Improving the X1 (& X2) Macro Performance


dkCambridgeshire

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The X2 has the same restrictive 30cm macro focus as the X1… but … If you can source two, or better still three, ancient Leitz Elpro VIb close up lenses and harness them to the X1 via adaptors the combination will enable the following magnifications on the sensor:

 

One Elpro VIb: at 10cm distance mag 0.2; at 25cm distance mag. 0.10 (that's 1/5 and 1/10 life size ... distance being measured from front of the mounted Elpro to the subject)

 

Two Elpro V1b screwed together: at 7cm distance mag 0.3; at 11cm distance mag 0.22 ( that’s approx 1/3 life size and 1/5 life size)

 

Three Elpro VIb screwed together: at 4cm distance mag 0.4; at 7.7cm distance mag 0.3 ( that’s approx 2/5 life size and 1/3 life size)

 

Surprisingly there is no vignetting when using three Elpro VIb screwed together on the X1 … but there is some pin cushion distortion. Sharpness remains high.

 

Four Elpro VIb screwed together can also be used but they cause image vignetting and there’s no real gain in magnification compared to using three.

 

The Leica R system Leitz Elpro VIb close up lenses are over 40 years old but they are highly corrected 4.92 diopter achromats.

 

Elpro 2 close up lenses are optically the same as the VIb but have a different thread ie a dual M55/M44 thread as distinct from Series VI .

 

Elpro 2 types cost more on the used market than the Series VI types.

 

I paid less than £10 each for my VIb Elpros.

 

Other Elpro c/u lenses are also available but their magnifications are much less than the VIb and type 2 eg:

 

Type 1 and VIa: 2.51 diopters; Type 3 and VIIa : 1.66 diopters; Type 4 and VIIb: 0.75 diopters.

 

I have used two VIb and two VIa Elpros together with no visible vignetting (see coin photo below)

 

To attach the VIb Elpros to the X1 I used: Kiwi LA-49X1 filter adaptor tube , plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring. The first VIb Elpro was glued into the 52mm side of the step up ring … additional VIb Elpros were then screwed directly into each other.

 

7187393160_9277ddc379_z.jpg

Elpro VIb close-up lenses with Kiwi Leica X1 filter adaptor tube by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

7187558464_c2678e74b9_z.jpg

Leica X1 with two Leitz Elpro VIb 4.92 diopter c/u lenses by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

If you decide to try the foregoing you might be very surprised at the quality of the resultant images.

 

7187326564_5152b5c19c_z.jpg

IRIS FLOWER HEAD by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

6516164485_33539c7fe4_z.jpg

Churchill Crown approx 0.4 mag - Leica X1 with Elpro c/u lenses by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

Anyone planning to visit next week's Photographica in London http://www.nanites.co.uk/pccgb/Photographica%2001.htm should be able to source a few Elpro 'R' close up lenses there at reasonable prices.

 

And of course the Elpros are very usable with eg the Summicron 50mm R lenses when one Elpro VIb or Elpro 2 will enable 0.38 mag. images on FF and 0.58 mag on a 1.5x crop APS-C sensor camera.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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WOW!!! any difference between Macrotar & Elpro VIb please?

 

 

7187717390_cc434a5d88_z.jpg

The Leitz 'Macrotar' is exactly the same as the Leitz 'Elpro' by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

The Leitz 'Macrotar' was an earlier name for the Leica R system 'Elpro' ... the Macrotar VIb and Elpro VIb are optically identical.

 

dunk

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Has anyone else tried using other types/makes of c/u lens with the X1 ... particularly achromats ... and if so which brands did you use?

 

According to my experiments a 10 diopter achromat should enable approx. 1/3 life size images.

 

dunk

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Readers of this thread probably realise I'm rather disappointed with the Leica X1's native close-up performance. In this addendum it's referred to as 'close-up' rather than 'macro' performance for the following reason:

 

There is a general consensus that 'photomacrography' (the officially accepted term for the more commonly used 'macro photography) covers reproduction ratios of 1:10 to 20:1 ... and even as high as 30:1 ... beyond which the art/science is termed as 'photomicrography'.

 

An argument can be made that images not meeting the minimum 0.1, 1/10, 1:10 life size reproduction ratio, are not strictly 'photomacrographs'.

 

Thus a camera not capable of producing images of 1/10 life size does not have a 'macro mode'.

 

Let's examine the X1 to ascertain its actual close-up capability:

 

7214301554_3f06224d05_z.jpg

Leica X1 ... Closest focus test by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

 

7214287444_db7e29be63_z.jpg

Leica X1 ... Closest focus test by s4sargent, on Flickr

 

The illustrated copystand experiment shows that at its closest focusing distance, the Leica X1 achieves a reproduction ratio of 2.36/28.5 = 0.08 magnification (2.36cm being the width of the APS-C sensor and 28.5cm being the width of the ruler) . This is just outside the accepted minimum 0.1 magnification parameter for 'macro' (i.e. photomacrography) ... thus strictly speaking, the Leica X1 does not have a 'macro mode' ... even though the instruction manual and the 'AF Macro' option suggest otherwise.

 

OK ... so I'm maybe splitting hairs ... because an optimist might say, " '0.08' can be rounded to '0.1' " ...

 

However, I'm just trying to emphasise that compared to other cameras, the X1's close-up performance, and thus that of the X2 camera, leaves something to be desired.

 

The X1 (and thus the X2) is not really a 'system camera' ie it is not offered with eg a Leica manufactured filter adaptor/tube and close-up lenses ... but the potential is there in a very small package to convert the camera into a more versatile machine for close-up photography of everyday subjects such as flowers, larger insects, jewellery and documents.

 

The Elpro experiments go some way towards showing the potential ... but maybe some other types/makes of high magnification achromatic close-up lenses might give equally good or better results.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

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  • 1 month later...

I have a question on this Elpro VIb. What is the strength of the glass? +10 or higher? I recently purchased a 49mm Macro Close-up +10 (NL10) Lens made by B+W. Attached is a shot I took with the macro filter on my X2. How different would the Elpro VIb be to the Macro filter I purchased? I had to get up close to the insect with the macro filter I had - would it be the same with the Elpro? I am just trying to understand the difference and cost as well is a big issue also. The 49 mm macro filter cost me new $42 USD shipped. The Elpro VIb runs used for $125. Is the VIb a higher strength ie +12?

 

Thanks

 

7408825888_deabaa0a08.jpg

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The Elpro VIb and the Elpro 2 are both 4.92 diopters - thus two used together = 9.84 diopters.

 

I just Googled 'Elpro VIb' and found this one for $29:

 

Used Elpro | B&H Photo Video

 

... I paid the equivalent of between $15 to $20 secondhand for each of mine in the UK.

 

The Elpro c/u lenses are achromats i.e. highly corrected doublet lenses and in my experience the results obtained with the X1 plus Elpro VIb lenses are good enough for exhibition purposes. I'm not sure if the B&W 10 diopter c/u lens is achromatic.

 

However, VIb = Series VI fitting - hence the need for the home made Series VI to 49mm adaptor. Elpro 2 lenses have the more commonly used 55mm thread hence they are more expensive.

 

How close you can get to e.g. an insect using Elpro lenses depends on the camera lens used. For the whole story about Elpro lenses please refer to the book 'Applied Leica Technique' by Günter Osterloh pages 164 to 166.

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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So please help me here. If I purchase the item from BH - what adapter will I need as well? I have the tube and such. But what is this Series VI to 49mm adaptor? Where is this located?

 

Is this the adapter?

 

Thanks,

 

Sam

 

 

 

The Elpro VIb and the Elpro 2 are both 4.92 diopters - thus two used together = 9.84 diopters.

 

I just Googled 'Elpro VIb' and found this one for $29:

 

Used Elpro | B&H Photo Video

 

... I paid the equivalent of between $15 to $20 secondhand for each of mine in the UK.

 

The Elpro c/u lenses are achromats i.e. highly corrected doublet lenses and in my experience the results obtained with the X1 plus Elpro VIb lenses are good enough for exhibition purposes. I'm not sure if the B&W 10 diopter c/u lens is achromatic.

 

However, VIb = Series VI fitting - hence the need for the home made Series VI to 49mm adaptor. Elpro 2 lenses have the more commonly used 55mm thread hence they are more expensive.

 

How close you can get to e.g. an insect using Elpro lenses depends on the camera lens used. For the whole story about Elpro lenses please refer to the book 'Applied Leica Technique' by Günter Osterloh pages 164 to 166.

 

dunk

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So please help me here. If I purchase the item from BH - what adapter will I need as well? I have the tube and such. But what is this Series VI to 49mm adaptor? Where is this located?

 

Is this the adapter?

 

Thanks,

 

Sam

 

I made my own as per previous post in this thread which states:

 

To attach the VIb Elpros to the X1 I used: Kiwi LA-49X1 filter adaptor tube , plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring. The first VIb Elpro was glued into the 52mm side of the step up ring … additional VIb Elpros were then screwed directly into each other.

 

... easy to get hold of the step up ring and a tube of glue.

 

But you really need TWO Elpro VIb c/u lenses if using them with the X1 and want to photograph e.g. coins.

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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  • 7 months later...

it is really interesting and above all useful to be able to make close up with the X1/X2, what I don't understand is:

 

don't you need a step down ring to use the elpro VIb with the kiwi filter adapter? you talk about a step up ring from 49 to 52 mm.

 

thanks

G

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Yes it's a 52mm to 49mm step down ring - and the Elpro VIb was glued into the 52mm side of the ring using a few tiny spots of epoxy resin - it's a bit fiddly as there is very little contact available. I also scraped the black anodised finish slightly to ensure metal to metal contact. If you use an Elpro 2 (dual 44mm and 55mm threads) instead of a VIb (Series VI, 44mm thread) you should be able to use a 55mm to 49mm step down ring. I used the VIb because I already had one and additionals were cheaper than the Elpro 2.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

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Thanks for the reply!

 

I look forward to trying this out, already went out and purchased a couple of Elpro VIs. In fact they should be the same as what you show in the first post in this thread.

 

Sorry if this seems like overkill. So the Kiwi thread is 49mm. The Elpro VIs in your photo look smaller than 49mm and that is what is confusing me. I read that the VI thread is uncommon so I am guessing that you used a 49-52 to allow enough room to do the glueing? I also found a Tiffen adaptor that will convert the VI end to a a VII. I have read that the VII thread is 54mm, so I am going to look for a step down 54 to 49 and maybe avoid the glueing part. Hope it works.

 

Cheers and thanks for the share

 

Thanks so much

Edited by Cheekyguille
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Thanks for the reply!

 

I look forward to try this out, already went out and purchased a couple of Elpro VIs.

 

Sorry if this seems like overkill. So the Kiwi thread is 49mm. Not sure about the size of the Elpro VI, but have read that it is an uncommon one. I also purchased an adaptor which allows me to take one Elpro from thread VI, to thread VII which I read is more common. I have not been able to find the exact size of the thread VII, but would rather find an adaptor that goes from the Kiwi's 49mm to VII and avoid the use of glue. Mind my asking again, what is the size of the thread for the Elpro VI? By any chance do you know the size of the VII thread?

 

Thanks so much

 

Elpro VII refers to Series VII thread which is 54mm

Elpro VI refers to Series VI which is 44mm

 

 

Elpro VIa and Elpro 1 are both 2.51 diopters

Elpro VIb and Elpro 2 are both 4.92 diopters

Elpro VIIa and Elpro 3 are both 1.66 diopters

Elpro VIIb and Elpro 4 are both 0.75 diopters

 

Elpro 1 and Elpro 2 have dual 44mm and 55mm threads

 

Elpro 3 has 55mm thread

 

Elpro 4 has 55mm thread

 

In my experience using the Leica X1, three Elpro c/u lenses can be stacked in front of the 24mm X1 lens without causing any vignetting.

 

The reason I used Elpro VIb lenses is that they are usually much cheaper than the optically identical Elpro 2. Three Elpro VIb for £10 to £12 each is a lot cheaper than three Elpro 3 at £25 to £35 each.

 

To adapt a 49mm Kiwi tube to Series VII ie 54mm you would need a 54mm to 49mm step down ring - if available . If not available, you could wrap a length of plumbers PTFE white thread seal tape around the 54mm male thread and then screw it into the 55mm adaptor - keep adding tape until it offers enough resistance to grip/screw into the 55mm thread.

 

Some dealers try and charge premium prices for Elpro VI and Elpro VII filters but they usually stick for months unless discounted. One 'knowledgeable" (not) UK used Leica dealer recently and incorrectly described Elpro 3 lenses as offering 3x magnification - with an OTT long blurb which was an equal load of eyewash - and was asking over £70 !!

 

Shop around and Elpro 2 can be found for less than £30 and Elpro VIb for less than £20 in UK ... and I've seen them and bought them in USA for less than $15.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

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Very useful info, a great guide.

 

Indeed I found the VIs as pictured on your post for around $20 usd each. The Tiffen VI-VII was $15, and just found a 49-54mm for another $15. The most expensive part for me was the Kiwi for around $40. All in all a quick and almost off the shelf way to try macro on my X2 and still keep within high quality Leitz glass :-)

 

Now I just have to wait for all these to trickle down in the mail :-)

 

Thanks a bunch

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well,

tried yesterday my X2 with one elpro VIb I had, The AF distance is really improved permitting close up shots.

I don't like to solution of the 49-52 step up ring, considering is not present a step down ring 49 to 44 mm I will try to use a 49 to 43 mm but I don't have it at the moment so I don't if will work.

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well,

tried yesterday my X2 with one elpro VIb I had, The AF distance is really improved permitting close up shots.

I don't like to solution of the 49-52 step up ring, considering is not present a step down ring 49 to 44 mm I will try to use a 49 to 43 mm but I don't have it at the moment so I don't if will work.

 

 

If you can source a 46mm to 49mm step up ring it should be possible to wrap some PTFE thread seal tape around the 44mm VIb screw thread and then screw it into the 46mm adaptor. 46mm to 49mm step up rings are listed by Ebay sellers.

 

I cannot trace any 44mm/Series VI to 49mm adaptors but Series VI (44mm) to Series VII (54mm) adaptors are available ... as are Series VII (54mm) to 49mm adaptors ... thus should be possible to use a Series VI to Series VII plus a Series VII to 49mm.

 

But the PTFE tape solution would be the most cost effective.

 

The other solution is to get an Elpro 2 and a 55mm to 49mm adaptor.

 

dunk

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