Survey: Your opinion about the new LEICA M MONOCHROM

[wok64]

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The MM camera makes me think about buying an m7 for the fun of B&W on it's 'real' media; film. An $8000.00 bw camera ..... well if it's so good, why throw in Silver Effex? I often shoot my m9 in bw mode, jpg, adjust the contrast and sharpness in camera, and open the file in Adobe 'camera raw'. That way I can edit without IQ loss and come out with a great BW file. Any thoughts?

 

I had some thoughts about it myself (with an MP actually), but a new M7 together with an excellent film scanner (I´ll not go back to printing in the darkroom, sorry) will set you back by almost the same amount of money.

 

In case you already own part of the equipment, it´s a different thing, obviously.

[c.poulton]

I had some thoughts about it myself (with an MP actually), but a new M7 together with an excellent film scanner (I´ll not go back to printing in the darkroom, sorry) will set you back by almost the same amount of money.

 

That's a very good point, often overlooked. Although I shoot exclusively on film and 98% B+W I don't own or have access to a darkroom so for me scanning is a very important component of the whole picture creating process.

 

At the moment I am reviewing my scanning options (I usually get Ilford Labs to scan during the film processing but I am going back to souping my own films again so am in need of a good film scanner.)

 

As I am also thinking about a second body for my m2, (an mp), what with the price for a good scanner thrown in, suddenly the cost of the m(9)-m doesn't seem so excessive after all!

 

 

Christian

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[250swb]

I often shoot my m9 in bw mode, jpg, adjust the contrast and sharpness in camera, and open the file in Adobe 'camera raw'. That way I can edit without IQ loss and come out with a great BW file. Any thoughts?

 

Do you really think the tiny electronic brain in your M9 is as good as or better than a full software package like Photoshop or Silver Efex? You can treat contrast on a whole image scale in your camera, Silver Efex makes it easy to adjust the micro contrast of different tones. Or you can adjust the overall brightness in the camera, but Silver Efex makes it easy to adjust the brightness of the highlights, or the mid-tones, or the shadows individually. And while Silver Efex doesn't do sharpening, the universal advice across all camera systems is to switch sharpening off in the camera and use proprietary software for the best possible outcome. Those are just a few of the reasons why Silver Efex and Lightroom and Photoshop are still needed

 

Steve

[01af]

I love the idea too. Leica can't claim it, however. Kodak/Nikon offered a monochrome/digital many years ago.

They didn't. They developed and presented a prototype, but they never offered it for sale.

 

Umm—as of now, the Leica M Monochrom has gone no farther than that, too.

[jaapv]

The MM camera makes me think about buying an m7 for the fun of B&W on it's 'real' media; film. An $8000.00 bw camera ..... well if it's so good, why throw in Silver Effex? I often shoot my m9 in bw mode, jpg, adjust the contrast and sharpness in camera, and open the file in Adobe 'camera raw'. That way I can edit without IQ loss and come out with a great BW file. Any thoughts?

You can come out with a great B&W file, no doubt. However, the point of the MM is that it takes (or branches) from the path of film, taking B&W photography in a new direction. So even if you can produce award-winning photographs by using film, they will not be able to duplicate the "look" of Leica MM photographs, provided that camera is not used to imitate film, like we are doing now with all digital cameras.

One should see this as the watershed like the one photography went through after Breitner, before it sought to make paintings by mechanical means, afterwards it developed into its own medium.

[downstairs]

Jaap's right. I can't speak for others, but I feel guilty about mendaciously converting from digital colour to black and white.

Neither did I feel good about shooting B&W sheet film then scanning and printing ink-jet.

Anything goes for a magazine, but for prints you have to tread carefully.

This camera is going to put a lot of things right.

[mwilliamsphotography]

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The MM camera makes me think about buying an m7 for the fun of B&W on it's 'real' media; film. An $8000.00 bw camera ..... well if it's so good, why throw in Silver Effex? I often shoot my m9 in bw mode, jpg, adjust the contrast and sharpness in camera, and open the file in Adobe 'camera raw'. That way I can edit without IQ loss and come out with a great BW file. Any thoughts?

 

Why throw in Nik Silver Efex?

 

Have you used it? It is far more than a B&W conversion program. It is extremely powerful software that provides the heel-toe response and characteristics of many different films, incredible control of grain/noise characteristics, has presets that dig more data out of either a color file OR a B&W file, OR even a film scan than you could get in PS after an hour's worth of screwing around ... with one click and a few minor adjustments ... and some cases you may never get the same result even if you worked it in PS for a month of Sundays.

 

This camera just hit the market, and bloggers are rushing to be first to talk about it. Give it some time, in the right hands, and after a period of learning, I think we will be stunned by it's abilities for the B&W photographer.

 

-Marc

[lct]

No Silver Efex coloured filters though.

[Peter H]

Jaap's right. I can't speak for others, but I feel guilty about mendaciously converting from digital colour to black and white.

Neither did I feel good about shooting B&W sheet film then scanning and printing ink-jet.

Anything goes for a magazine, but for prints you have to tread carefully.

This camera is going to put a lot of things right.

 

I completely understand your concerns.

 

I have similar concerns, but about B&W generally. I see the world in colour, and that's the way I like to record it most of the time. Truth matters, as far as its possible to pin it down, which I know isn't far!

 

Because of the way film and developing techniques were invented we have a long and honourable tradition of superb B&W photography that make us comfortable with the artificiality of it, but its an artifice like any other special effect. All photography is artifice of course, but B&W adds another layer of artificiality. Not in technical, but in aesthetic terms.

 

So if I ever wish to take or convert a photo in/to B&W I have to have a reason for doing it, for knowing why I'm abandoning a huge element of the actual visual scene that I'm recording, and why I'm employing an effect. This goes for any other "effect" I may consider.

 

I fully appreciate this is a personal and maybe idiosyncratic view. For others, B&W is the purer form. I don't believe it to be true, I believe it to be a popular conventional misconception that depends more on a technical than an artistic view of the world, but it is a highly personal matter.

 

Anyway, for these philosophical reasons, and despite its huge appeal, my opinion of the M9M is rather, well, coloured.

[Photoskeptic]

I used to shoot my M8 with a yellow filter when I knew the subject matter would be converted to bw. Yes, the downloaded file looked pretty weird, but the instant it was converted to bw it was magic. It made a small but distinct difference, especially with clouds in the bg of a shady foreground, which otherwise would have been blown out.

I've had many conflicted opinions on this camera since it was introduced. My first reaction, always a knee-jerk one, was that it is another overpriced Leica offering little in the way of advancement in photography. But, whoa there horsey, now that user reports are beginning to filter in, I'm starting to see the point of this exercise and I think with some competent users we may start seeing some images which would make the camera worthy of consideration. I'm waiting...

[pico]

Are you on something in Minnesota - is it something in the water ?

 

Chill and don't always be so combative

 

Sometimes I come off as terse in writing, but IRL it is not taken that way due to tone of voice, and so-forth. I must work on that. Thanks for the nudge and your patience.

.

[pico]

Here is some of my work

 

http://elanphotos.com/ElanFotos/contest_01/index.html

 

I like your work. I see a consistency in vision, some common themes running through it all. There is much to dwell upon. Thank you for that.

.

I have a feeling that you might not like the outcome of the MM.

[thrid]

I like your work. I see a consistency in vision, some common themes running through it all. There is much to dwell upon. Thank you for that.

.

I have a feeling that you might not like the outcome of the MM.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm going to wait for Photokina and will see what they come up with. But frankly I'm not sure why. There may be a new camera, but the pricetag isn't going to change. It's a little frustrating when after 15 years you are denied your preferred tool, because it's transformed in to a luxury item and has been priced out of your reach.

 

Oh, well. Tri-X is still $3.79 a roll.

[davidbaddley]

All photography is artifice of course, but B&W adds another layer of artificiality. Not in technical, but in aesthetic terms.

 

I see it exactly the other way around. The closer photography gets to the real world, the more effectively artificial (deceptive) it becomes. Black & White is not a layer of artifice, but a layer of abstraction. By taking a step farther away from my native perception (with my eyes, in color), B&W is less literal and more poetic. It embraces artificial illusion of the world a little less, and the truth of the image a little more.

[Rick]

The M9 is such a good camera and photographic experience. Those whom own one know you can do more with those gorgeous files than any other camera. Ask Jammie.

 

So, why wouldn't I expect Leica to deliver the same incredible experience with a uniquely Leica B&W camera? Judging by how much I like the M9, it probably will be the coolest thing.

 

Now I'm starting to wonder, what could I do with the M9M and my 50 Summilux? And, how much are those prints going to cost if Leica does them? Could I concentrate more on taking pictures if someone else could make really great prints for me? How simple would that be? Like sending my film to the drugstore.

[jaapv]

Try Whitewall for the prints. For my daily work I use Prophotonet. Laser prints on chemical paper. Homegrown does not even come close, but then I cannot afford a printer that runs into five figures. You must have similar services in the USA.

Edited May 13, 2012 by jaapv

[Rick]

Thanks. I never thought that I was doing homegrown. I have a 44inch printer and have spent a lot of time getting good prints. But, I'm sure you are right. A good pro lab is going to beat my printing no matter how good I am. Just like when I was printing film. The local pro lab could always beat my printing. They just had better stuff and better people. I'm going to look into this. I think you just helped me make better photographs.

Edited May 13, 2012 by RickLeica

[almoore]

A monochrome only camera that delivered better results than a traditional digital camera would be a very interesting thing, but is this camera actually it?

 

The early results look, frankly, awful: flat plasticky mid-tones combined with hideously blocked highlights. It resembles the results of the first generation of T-Max that so firmly persuaded photographers to stick with Tri-X. Now it might be that the files simply take a lot of getting used to before a photographer can knock them into shape, but it's hard not to be wary when Leica seemingly can't find any images that really shine technically.

[Rick]

A monochrome only camera that delivered better results than a traditional digital camera would be a very interesting thing, but is this camera actually it?

 

The early results look, frankly, awful: flat plasticky mid-tones combined with hideously blocked highlights. It resembles the results of the first generation of T-Max that so firmly persuaded photographers to stick with Tri-X. Now it might be that the files simply take a lot of getting used to before a photographer can knock them into shape, but it's hard not to be wary when Leica seemingly can't find any images that really shine technically.

 

Do you own a M9? I ask this because unless you have you really can't understand how good it really is. I'm sure this is true of a lot of cameras and I'd bet it is going to be true of the MM. We''l have to wait and see...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[almoore]

Do you own a M9? I ask this because unless you have you really can't understand how good it really is. I'm sure this is true of a lot of cameras and I'd bet it is going to be true of the MM. We''l have to wait and see...

 

I skipped the M8 after trying an early model, but bought an M9 which I sold after around six months. I'm just not wholly comfortable with digital Leicas - the proportions don't feel right in my hands and the shutter release has none of the tactility of a film M.

 

I'm happily putting Tri-X and Portra through M6s for now and hoping that the M10 will be more appealing to me. For digital I use Canon 5DIIs - they're charmless, but glitch free and practical.