nzav Posted March 6, 2007 Share #61 Posted March 6, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry for the typo on "flys" It should oviously have been flies... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 Hi nzav, Take a look here Visoflex + 65mm + M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted March 6, 2007 Share #62 Posted March 6, 2007 What may not be clear from the diagram in posting #25 is that where you see two adapters in the tree, this is because the front part of the lens screws off and attaches to the extra adapter. For example, the 135 with the goggles and the 90mm f2.0 (from Canada,at least, as that's the one I own) have 2 sections. Unscrew the front of the lens, and you mount the front part on the second adapter section. To reattach the front to the customary back half, screw it back on, hand tightening firmly. I believe all the optics are in the front half of these lenses. Look in the back and there's a long tunnel. BTW, these are old lenses. The optics in the newer ones are superior in many ways. 'Course, I'm accumulating a visoflex set of sorts, myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 6, 2007 Share #63 Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks to the various people who have posted answers. To clarify, I was wondering which specific lenses I might consider, for high-quality macro photography. To be more specific, portability is more important than very high ratios. I would be more than happy to use something limited to 1:1 or 2:1 (which I understand to mean double life size as measured on the sensor; am I backwards here?) I will probably eventually get a bellows II, but for now I am more interested in something which just pops directly onto the Visoflex III and gives reproduction ratios around 1:1 plus a little bit on either side, perhaps. I thought that the 90/4 Macro might be interesting on the Visoflex III, as opposed to with the macro adapter. Has anyone tried this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael M. Posted March 6, 2007 Share #64 Posted March 6, 2007 Hello Carsten If you like to test first and if you do not like to invest big money into a story you didn't know by now if it will fly for you try following first: (basically Viso and Bellows available) Try first your existing normal 50...90mm lenses on bellow. Check up for picture quality down to 1:1 at various f-stops. Try second your lenses 35...50mm in reverse (frontglas to sensor) this will enlarge ratio from 1:1 to ~1:5. For standard macro applications this "easy solution" will fit fine and quality is also not that bad (!) Next step could be to follow up what was mentioned before: using as high quality enlarging lense (Apo-Rodagon, Apo-HM-Componon ...) Those lenses are from excellent quality and they could be "shooten" by small money at ebay ourdays. This configuration will support (on higher quality level) the range arround 1:1 Other - very specific - lenses as I mentioned (Photare, Luminar, M-Componon) are supporting the real high end in macro. Before it wents to microscopical observation. Nothing to play with only. Serious Macronomics only BTW This figures of the ratio (size in nature / resulting sice on negative or sensor) always confusing me: is it 1:5 when object is larger then picture or is it vice versa??? I think coming down from infinity (1:oo) objekt size get larger as closer you went and so it will count down ...1:50 ... 1:20 ... 1:5 (which means that size on sensor is still 5 times smaller then object visible now in nature). And it changed the "polarity" when size on sensor get above original size ( 2:1 means double enlarged) Hope still I'm right in this:o (means, that in my former postings for that it was wrong - was telling opposite - sorry!) Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 6, 2007 Share #65 Posted March 6, 2007 Hallo Michael, As I understand it, 1:5 is the same as 1/5 life size, ie. replace : with / This is confirmed by Leica's 90/4 Macro page. Note the reference to 1:3 enlargement. Leica Camera AG - Photography - LEICA MACRO-ELMAR-M 90 mm f/4 If I want to mount my lenses backwards, where do I find an adapter? To be honest, I would be paranoid about scratching the rear element of my 50/1.4 Asph, so I would rather have a dedicated macro lens of lesser value. It sounds from your answer like I cannot expect to do any macro photography without the bellows? I was hoping to do some limited macro photography with something like the 90/4 and the Visoflex III alone, with bellows. I tried my 135/2.8 today on the Visoflex III and got something like 1:2, estimated, which I found okay, except that the lens is much too large and heavy for my taste for this purpose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 6, 2007 Share #66 Posted March 6, 2007 Well I am just going to try my regular 75 and 90 for now and see what it does , than get more serious about it. i do think I landed this job for a custom gun maker so for the small parts it maybe very useful. Otherwise i have a 100 apo for the DMR to use but i really would like to see how this works out. I like a challenge. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted March 6, 2007 Share #67 Posted March 6, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks to the various people who have posted answers. To clarify, I was wondering which specific lenses I might consider, for high-quality macro photography. To be more specific, portability is more important than very high ratios. I would be more than happy to use something limited to 1:1 or 2:1 (which I understand to mean double life size as measured on the sensor; am I backwards here?) I will probably eventually get a bellows II, but for now I am more interested in something which just pops directly onto the Visoflex III and gives reproduction ratios around 1:1 plus a little bit on either side, perhaps. I thought that the 90/4 Macro might be interesting on the Visoflex III, as opposed to with the macro adapter. Has anyone tried this? Carsten, I believe that the 65mm is designed specifically for macro work. Looking at the chart, it seems like only the 35 and 50 attach to a single adapter. I think you have to use at least one adapter in all cases. However, this may only be in order to achieve infinity capability. I will mount the V-3 housing tonite and see what happens with my various lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted March 6, 2007 Share #68 Posted March 6, 2007 For those unlucky on eBay, KEH have a bundle of Visoflex units and accessories on their website. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 7, 2007 Share #69 Posted March 7, 2007 Btw, how does one use a flash for macro with the Visoflex III? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael M. Posted March 7, 2007 Share #70 Posted March 7, 2007 As I understand it, 1:5 is the same as 1/5 life size, ie. replace : with / This is confirmed by Leica's 90/4 Macro page. Note the reference to 1:3 enlargement. As you can see at the spec 1:3 is maximum you can reach up with the "Macroadaptor" added. This means, that the resulting "Picture" at film/sensor is still 1/3 of reality. It's still not enlarged As closer you went to object as larger it will be on sensor - and vice versa as more fare as smaller it becomes (see also spec: without applied adaptor the macro-Elmarit will suport "only" 1:6,7 because you have to care about enough distance (lens>film) to get picture sharp) So it's smaller what you will get on sensor. reducing production -------- original production ------ enlarging production ---- mikroscopics 1:inf. --- 1:50 --- 1:10 --- 1:3 -------- 1:1 ----------- 3:1 ---- 10:1 ---- 50:1 ---- 100:1 ---- And as Leica supports "standard usage" of this Elmar also it has to convince a normal Leica user with sharpness and good contrast also at infinity - so it can't be designed to show also optimum at 1:1 or even inside the "enlarging" area above (3:1 ...) This is a general a problem of optical design "laws". If I want to mount my lenses backwards, where do I find an adapter? As Leica M isn't a system supporting macro it will not be easy to get all from Leica's catalog. In former days it was possible. So still looking at auctions is best way to get "genuine" material. And even if you like to have adaptors fitting the newer M-bajonet at Viso III you will get it by ebay (takes a little time of course) or you can order it as a special manufactured one at companies like Zörkendörfer (Zörk Film- und Fototechnik / Makrofotografie, Architektur, Schärfentiefe, Adapter) at acceptable cost. But if you use a bellow you did not need bajonetadaptor - it's done by a screwmount/screwmound adaptor only (one extra benefit for bellows system) To be honest, I would be paranoid about scratching the rear element of my 50/1.4 Asph, so I would rather have a dedicated macro lens of lesser value. Be patiant, risk to damage backlens of your 50asph. is not increasing! Benefit is that you will reach up interesting range of "Abbildungsmaßstab" close to 1:1 as well as very good picture quality without investing in macro-lens. Even with a 35mm wideangle lens in reverse you can break-through the "1:1" wall and get real enlarging factor - 3:1 or even higher. Sorry, detailed figures I'm not able to present as I played the game with my 6X6 systems. Doing it with my digital M is also something I'm starting now. But I'm in good conditions as physics is always same and as I'm a Leica collector different Viso's, bellows, adaptors are already at hand It sounds from your answer like I cannot expect to do any macro photography without the bellows? I was hoping to do some limited macro photography with something like the 90/4 and the Visoflex III alone, with bellows. I tried my 135/2.8 today on the Visoflex III and got something like 1:2, estimated, which I found okay, except that the lens is much too large and heavy for my taste for this purpose. Of course you can do macro fotography without bellows! It's always a question of definition. But it's limiting this way! No flexibility in selecting "Abbildungsmaßstab" You have to use it like it is fixed by the additional distance 'lens/Sensor' your Viso will give you - no variation. And as you can see at Leicas Macro-Elmar with applied adaptor: distance controlling on the lens shrink down to some cm variation. Using telefoto lenses will shift you even more away from the area of the acceptable reduced quality range a standard lens may still offer at close up. Please note that teles are even more corrected to play at infinity compared to 50mm or 35mm lenses. It sounds nice to take tele and Viso to get "big" picture. But you will earn much more distortion because your 135mm is not made for close distance use. The real interesting area of macro fotography is above 1:1 and in that area equippment get specific (mostly lenses). But results will surprise you ... Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael M. Posted March 7, 2007 Share #71 Posted March 7, 2007 Btw, how does one use a flash for macro with the Visoflex III? It's again me Leica is very close. Using the SF 24D flasch with it's supported option of TTL sensoring you will have always good light on sensor! Nothing to care about by different lightcalculation when using optics in revers, with or without adaptor, Viso, bellows ... ... with only one little restriction (as always ...) : Flashing sometimes cannot be done by plugging flash on camera! This may produce shadow when using it with different long adaptors and distance frontlens to object is very low. And it is impossible when using Viso. Even not that easy with OTVXO magnifier. So we need a adaptor-cable connecting 24D to M8 by wire (fully equipped, supporting all features). As also flashing from side (45°) it's not bad for macro it could be a cable (or flash system) offering connection of 2 flashes same time (left/right 45°). See also last LFI. Haven't checked so fare where to get fitting cable. May be Metz will support (if we all ask for ;-)) There is a lot of equippment on market to mount one or two flashes on special flexible holders. (Novoflex) see NOVOFLEX PrŠzisionstechnik GmbH And real peak in this could be a ring-flash ... Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share #72 Posted March 7, 2007 Has anyone mounted a large format macro lens? The digital macro lenses like the Rodenstock Apo-Macro-Sironar digital 120/5.6 and the Schneider Apo-Digitar 120mm/f5.6 Macro are optimized for smaller formats. The Rodenstock Apo-Sironar digital HR 60/4 is intended for 37x49 mm maximum format. It does not have the Macro designation but I believe ALPA stated that these lenses are normally optimized for tabletop applications. The HR's have are reputed to be stellar performers. I have used the Schneider Apo-Digitar 120mm/f5.6 Macro on 6x9 film and it was an excellent lens. You could order a lens without the shutter and have someone mount a Leica thread mount or bayonet mount. The Rodenstock with shutter can be had new for about $1,030 USD, a bargain in Leica land. Is there some commonly available mount for large format with an existing Viso adapter? Can a lens board be mounted on the bellows? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted March 7, 2007 Share #73 Posted March 7, 2007 I may have missed it, but if one has R to M adapter, can you use Visoflex with R lenses? I assume may lose infinity focus, but maybe not? Victor Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 7, 2007 Share #74 Posted March 7, 2007 I'm going to try it when mine gets here Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael M. Posted March 8, 2007 Share #75 Posted March 8, 2007 I may have missed it, but if one has R to M adapter, can you use Visoflex with R lenses? I assume may lose infinity focus, but maybe not? Victor adaptor "22228" ? Operating distance (Viso III + 50/1,4) will shrink down to 9 ...10 cm distance object > frontglas. (Optics focused at infinity) But anyhow: much better optics available for macro at "R"-system !!! If you still own a Apo-Macro-Elmarit 2,8/100 ... forget for anything else ... look for the Adaptor! And still I'm keen to learn about results on the other side by Apo-Telyt's modulesystem (280...800mm and Apo-extender) on M8 Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 8, 2007 Share #76 Posted March 8, 2007 I did win a 16466 adapter on e-bay yesterday only becuase i am not sure what my dealer is sending me, it could be a whole setup for me. He set one up and played with it all day than just shipped it , hopefully he threw in some extra stuff. I might try and find that 65mm lens now. There not so cheap Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted March 8, 2007 Share #77 Posted March 8, 2007 adaptor "22228" ?Operating distance (Viso III + 50/1,4) will shrink down to 9 ...10 cm distance object > frontglas. (Optics focused at infinity) But anyhow: much better optics available for macro at "R"-system !!! If you still own a Apo-Macro-Elmarit 2,8/100 ... forget for anything else ... look for the Adaptor! And still I'm keen to learn about results on the other side by Apo-Telyt's modulesystem (280...800mm and Apo-extender) on M8 Michael Dear Michael Yes, you may have seen my shot with 800mm R modular on the M8. (both setup, and sample image with the bird) No big trick. You cannot SEE much less focus with that big lens, so with the R to M adapter I simply focused with the R9-DMR, and then carefully exchange R and mount the M8. The Leica adapter (I have both the Leica and the Novoflex, both VERY precise) and the swap was right on focus. It is really the good Leica engineering so no trick at all, just takes time (maybe 10 seconds.) If you saw my 15mm 2.8 with same adapter you can have fantastic WA on M8 with no vignetting and crystal clear (for about $7,000 list for the 15mm!) I actually use the VC 15mm at 1/20 the price and get very satisfying images. Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael M. Posted March 8, 2007 Share #78 Posted March 8, 2007 ... I might try and find that 65mm lens now. There not so cheap ... It's a Leica lens ... This lens is excellent for Viso II and III especially for macro 1:10 ... 1:3 and in reverse mode it went over 1:1 and give real good quality there. For focusing (Viso III) from inf. down to 0,33m you need the 16464 adaptor or bellows II The Elmar offers very easy to "reverse" it (frontglas to film/sensor) by simple filter-ring and offers this way much higher "Abbildungsmaßstab" (magnification) and same time more distance object > front- (now it's the rear)lens and as well better optical performance as more you magnify. Also illuminating object is more easy this way as distance get closer and closer and nearby lense touch object. So it's of practical benefit if (reversed) lens shows with "slim" end towards object If looking for a 3,5/65 Elmar check for version. Two versions are on market. 1st and older one only in silver delivered up to 1970 - first optical calculation (# OCMOR/11062) 2nd version in black and with f-stop ring changed now to support 1/2 stops - new optical calculation (# 11162) -- preferred version! In general: check for fungus on lens! I'm using 2nd version # 2617xxx Made by LEITZ WETZLAR (ebay) Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael M. Posted March 8, 2007 Share #79 Posted March 8, 2007 Dear Michael Yes, you may have seen my shot with 800mm R modular on the M8. (both setup, and sample image with the bird) No big trick. You cannot SEE much less focus with that big lens, so with the R to M adapter I simply focused with the R9-DMR, and then carefully exchange R and mount the M8. The Leica adapter (I have both the Leica and the Novoflex, both VERY precise) and the swap was right on focus. It is really the good Leica engineering so no trick at all, just takes time (maybe 10 seconds.) Regards Hi Victor Hi - I'm very sorry - did miss the pic (any link- please??!) On the other hand - it's a really simple trick - focusing on R9 ... changing to M8 ... but an expensive solution as I do not have any R's Michael ... looking for cheaper solution Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted March 9, 2007 Share #80 Posted March 9, 2007 Could anyone post up a link, please, to the bellows aspect of the Visoflex system? Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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