90mm Summarit vs. APO

[bpalme]

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I'm looking for any threads that show side by side comparison.(Yes I used the search) They both seem great from samples I can find.

I don't really need the F2 so I think I can save a ton of money with the summarit. Although the pull out hood is a bonus.

Anyone own both or have done their own comparisons comments would be appreciated.

 

Also thinking about just getting the Olympus 45 1.8 for m43 if anyone just happens to have comparisons for that too. I've never used a 90 on the M so concerned about focus.

[jdlaing]

I'm looking for any threads that show side by side comparison.(Yes I used the search) They both seem great from samples I can find.

I don't really need the F2 so I think I can save a ton of money with the summarit. Although the pull out hood is a bonus.

Anyone own both or have done their own comparisons comments would be appreciated.

 

Also thinking about just getting the Olympus 45 1.8 for m43 if anyone just happens to have comparisons for that too. I've never used a 90 on the M so concerned about focus.

 

I have both the new 12mm and 45mm Olympus lenses and both are outstanding for what they are.

[StephenPatterson]

I think you should also consider the 90 Elmarit-M. Even though this lens is no longer in production there are many mint examples on the market, as some people just don't give the 90mm focal length the love it deserves. That's unfortunate, because it's one of my favorite lenses. The Elmarit-M's construction is excellent, very solid with the slide out hood, and unlike the Summarit the focus ring is metal, not a rubber band.

 

The APO is a stunning lens, but larger, heavier, and much more expensive. A mint Elmarit-M will set you back around $1500-$1700 USD.

 

There are many examples with factory 6-bit coding, or you can send it off to be coded, or just not worry about it. The 6-bit coding is nice to have for sorting in LR.

 

Optically the Elmarit-M and Summarit are very similar, however they tend to render colors differently, although this is very subtle.

[bpalme]

Roger that. I forgot to mention that in the OP.

I'm also interested in the small tele elmarit.

Can you guys tell any difference in sharpness for real world shots?

 

Probably going to weed out some lenses down to 4 total. Thinking: Ultra wide, 35, 50 and a 90.

Ok so now I'm rambling.

[rramesh]

I think you should also consider the 90 Elmarit-M.

I recently purchased the Elmarit-M in mint condition. Even though the Elmarit-M and Summarit are very similar, what made me lean towards the Elmarit was (a) price - even with the cost of sending it to Leica for 6-bit coding and calibration, it worked out cheaper than the Summarit, ( somewhat more solid construction, and © the integral telescoping hood.

[StephenPatterson]

I had the Tele-Elmarit (Fat Version) but I didn't like it on the M9. Much too soft in resolution and contrast for my liking. I then purchased the Elmarit-M and have been absolutely thrilled. It's sharp at f/2.8 but gets even better at f/4. I used a 90 Summarit for a couple of days at the Leica Akademie LA weekend last year, as I was wondering if I would like that lens. While it's very nice, it just didn't win me over.

[bpalme]

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I recently purchased the Elmarit-M in mint condition. Even though the Elmarit-M and Summarit are very similar, what made me lean towards the Elmarit was (a) price - even with the cost of sending it to Leica for 6-bit coding and calibration, it worked out cheaper than the Summarit, ( somewhat more solid construction, and © the integral telescoping hood.

Thanks, if you don't mind me asking.. how much does it cost for the calibration/6 bit.

Did they calibrate it to your specific cameras?

[StephenPatterson]

My 90 Elmarit-M went to Leica NJ and was 6-bit coded for a flat $230 fee. It also came with a new test and calibration certificate, signed by the technician. As you probably know Leica do not adjust lenses to specific cameras, but rather to a standard spec, so that they may be used on all bodies. The entire process took around three weeks.

[kokoshawnuff]

Sorry to take this thread off topic further, but there is a pretty substantial difference in used prices between the Elmarit and Summarit. You can get a legitimately mint Summarit for under $1300 (I've seen them go for $1150), but it would be difficult to find a mint Elmarit for under $1600. The 90mm Summarit is an under appreciated focal length that's part of an under appreciated line-up of lenses, while the Elmarit has gained a kind of cult status over the past couple years...that's enough to create the price differences. Theoretically these lenses should be priced about equally (maybe $1500 for a mint used copy), but right now it's not the case and that really favors the under valued Summarit...

 

I've never tried the Summicron but it is supposed the be as close to perfect in an optical sense as any lens in existence. I've used both the Elmarit and the Summarit and they are typical of Leica: Great.

[StephenPatterson]

I agree that 90 Summarits are getting a bad wrap and as such the used prices have been low. I think a price of $1300 on average is about right. I also agree that the 90 Elmarit-M did go through a frenzy period after the M9 was introduced, but prices seem to now be stabilizing. A friend recently purchased a mint condition factory coded example for $1500. When I consider the expected lifetime use of a Leica lens the difference of a few hundred dollars is very insignificant, so then the optical and mechanical build quality are the sole determining factors. In this regard these two lenses are very close, however I feel the Elmarit-M wins on solid construction and better overall feel.

[lars_bergquist]

You asked about the Tele-Elmarit (1973–1989). On film, this was primarily a super lightweight lens (225 grams). It was decent wide open but with fairly low contrast, and noticeably soft in the corners. Stopped down to 5.6 it was brilliant.

 

I found however that on digital, it is a quite different beast. It is now perfectly useable at 2.8 and very good stopped down. Its drawing is clear and pleasant, though smoother than the current lenses. It is one 90mm that you can conveniently carry in a jacket pocket. Mine is a 'jubilee' edition lens from 1983, and I had it cleaned and re-lubricated. It will see much use in the future.

 

If you buy one, beware of the feared rear element haze condition that is known in some early lenses. These elements cannot be disassembled, so if it is there, the lens is a loss. Mine however is crystal clear. The lens takes a folding rubber hood 11250 with a retaining ring for a Series 5.5 filter, but the lens front ring can take a regular E39 filter too. The rubber can be treated with a good rubber conditioner, the kind you use for rubber boots. Or the lens will take the dear old IUFOO/12575 snap-on hood which is still being manufactured for the 90mm Macro-Elmar!

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

[jaapv]

There is a bit of confusion here. The lens that is meant is the Elmarit-M 90/2.8 That one is a superior lens of high optical and mechanical quality and imo more desirable than the Summarit.

All other 90 Elmarits are older lenses each with its own qualities and charm and as good as any vintage Leica lens, but not up for a contest with modern lenses.

90 mm is an interesting focal length.I do not think Leica ever built a 90 mm that was not excellent. Even a pre-war 90/4.0 LTM lens will give astounding results on the M9.

The 90 Summicron AA is in a class of its own. Whether one needs that optical level in everyday shooting is another thing, as it really needs impeccable technique like very short shutter times or a tripod, perfect focussing and spot-on exposure to bring out all its qualities.

[swiss leica fan]

I have the 90mm Summarit and I am very happy with it. However, I think a limitation with the 90mm lenses is the closed distance is 1 meter. For portraits this is a limitation. Therefore, I prefer the 75mm APO Summicron which has a close distance of 70cm.

 

Concerning the 90mm APO I am not sure about the short distance performance as it does not have the floating elements unlike the 75mm APO. Also, there are some rumors that there is problem with the 90mm APO with focus accuracy on M9 bodies. With the 90mm Summarit I have had no problems with focus accuracy.

 

Kind regards

Andreas

[jaapv]

Afaik there is no specific problem with the 90 AA focussing on the M9 other than that it is a fast longish lens so more demanding of user focussing technique. For short distances I would recommend the 90 macro

[farnz]

... Also, there are some rumors that there is problem with the 90mm APO with focus accuracy on M9 bodies. With the 90mm Summarit I have had no problems with focus accuracy.

Andreas,

 

FWIW I use the 90 AA with my M9-P and I haven't noticed a problem with focus accuracy although obviously I can't speak for others.

 

Bear in mind though that the 90 AA has a shallower depth of field than even the f/1 Noctilux so the opportunity for 'operator error' is increased.

 

Pete.

[wda]

Roger that. I forgot to mention that in the OP.

I'm also interested in the small tele elmarit.(TE)

Can you guys tell any difference in sharpness for real world shots?....

I had the older version for many years and liked the results. However it simply does not compare with your candidate lenses or the equally excellent 90 Elmarit-M. I bought the latter to replace the TE and consider it a significant upgrade if you require or like modern rendering.

[algrove]

There is a bit of confusion here. The lens that is meant is the Elmarit-M 90/2.8 That one is a superior lens of high optical and mechanical quality and imo more desirable than the Summarit.

All other 90 Elmarits are older lenses each with its own qualities and charm and as good as any vintage Leica lens, but not up for a contest with modern lenses.

90 mm is an interesting focal length.I do not think Leica ever built a 90 mm that was not excellent. Even a pre-war 90/4.0 LTM lens will give astounding results on the M9.

The 90 Summicron AA is in a class of its own. Whether one needs that optical level in everyday shooting is another thing, as it really needs impeccable technique like very short shutter times or a tripod, perfect focussing and spot-on exposure to bring out all its qualities.

 

Thanks. I agree since I own both a Elmarit-M 90/2.8 and the 90/2.0 APO. The latter produces my sharpest images.

[Double Negative]

I think you already answered your question when you stated that you "don't really need the F2."

 

Save a lot of money, lens weight and size and go with the Summarit - or a nice discontinued Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8, which are wonderful.

[bpalme]

I think you already answered your question when you stated that you "don't really need the F2."

 

Save a lot of money, lens weight and size and go with the Summarit - or a nice discontinued Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8, which are wonderful.

Yeah, Don't need the F2 but would still love to see some side by sides. If I was blown away maybe I would spend the extra $$$.

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Hallo,

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