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Leica M6 or M4-P?

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M4P rules!!

 

But please note that even though it's brass, it won't brass because it's not painted but chromed and using up the chrome is almost impossible.

 

The brass benefits versus stupid Zinc are still there: better feel in hand and if you bump it chances are that you won't affect the top plate... And any dent is easily fixable while with Zinc there'sa chance

It will crack. Imagine that. How Leica can a Zinc camera be? It's inexcusable.

Also, the chrome on Zinc cameras tends to bubble, what a horrible thing, really.

I really dislike the m6 cameras because of that. The LHSA or Millennium are brilliant versions, thanks to their Brass+Paint bodies.

 

The M4P is, to me, one of the ultimate Leicas. And I love the framelines: simply the best 35 and 50 framelines!

Edited by NB23

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I personally wouldn't swap an M6 for an M4-p. It's pretty much the same but without the meter.

As others have said, it wont brass. The black chrome will rub through over time but then you hit the nickel layer which is very tough. The only way to brass one is to take sandpaper to it or do as I do and take the nickel and chrome off and then paint the brass direct.

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Guest Ornello
I personally wouldn't swap an M6 for an M4-p. It's pretty much the same but without the meter.

As others have said, it wont brass. The black chrome will rub through over time but then you hit the nickel layer which is very tough. The only way to brass one is to take sandpaper to it or do as I do and take the nickel and chrome off and then paint the brass direct.

 

Are you sure you would not want to look at an M-5?

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Guest Ornello
...because the offer to trade is for an M4-P...?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

 

Oh, well I see. But anyway, I would urge any male to consider the M5. I think it fits the male hand better. I am by no means a big guy, and I always thought the M4 was too tiny for my hands. I also much prefer the larger shutter-speed dial of the M-5, which is much like that of the SL-2. Some later M-6 cameras have a somewhat larger shutter-speed dial, but still not to my liking.

 

The small shutter-speed dial of the cameras prior to the M-5 was not intended to be used directly, but through the clip-on meter (it has a notch in it to align the meter).

 

If the OP already has an M-6 with the larger shutter-speed dial, it would be going backwards at least in that regard.

 

From Ken Rockwell's site:

 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/images/m6/D3S_8433-top.jpg

Edited by Ornello

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The small shutter-speed dial of the cameras prior to the M-5 was not intended to be used directly, but through the clip-on meter (it has a notch in it to align the meter).

 

 

What rot.

 

The functionality to add a shoe mounted meter was available, but it wasn't a pre-requisite.

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What rot.

 

The functionality to add a shoe mounted meter was available, but it wasn't a pre-requisite.

 

Hardly is it rot, Sahib. It's rather small, too small for many fingers. It was made that way for the meter to slip onto. Once Leica realized that, they changed it.

 

You'll note the M-5 has a rather large shutter-speed dial since the meter is built in. That's something I like.

 

When Leica dropped the M-5 and went back to the M4-P they also returned to the small shutter-speed dial. When they started making the M-6, I think a larger shutter-speed dial just got lost in the shuffle. But they eventually fixed that.

Edited by Ornello

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What rot.

 

The functionality to add a shoe mounted meter was available, but it wasn't a pre-requisite.

 

I'd have to agree. I'd disagree that it can't be changed while looking through the r/f. I along with many do this.

The first M3 has the slotted shutter speed dial so the question should really be 'what came first, the camera or the meter?'

My money is on the camera and from a design point of view, the dial was placed mid camera for 'reasons unknown' and then a solution was found to link the meter early in the design process.

I never liked the big dial ttl because of the cheap and nasty shutter speed dial insert stuck on with a double sided pad! It was easier to use though.

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Hardly is it rot, Sahib. It's rather small, too small for many fingers. It was made that way for the meter to slip onto. Once Leica realized that, they changed it.

 

So it took Leica from 1954 to the M6TTL "to realise". LOL! That'll be 44 years.

 

Thanks. I needed cheering up this evening.

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So it took Leica from 1954 to the M6TTL "to realise". LOL!

 

Thanks. I needed cheering up this evening.

 

No, they realized it when they designed the M-5. Before the M-5 there were no meters inside the camera, right? You put the MR meter on top of the shutter speed dial from M-2 to M-4. With the M-5, the MR meter was not needed, so they went to a big shutter speed dial. When they went to the M-6, they must have forgotten, but eventually they did fix it.

 

It's perfectly obvious.

Edited by Ornello

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... When they went to the M-6, they must have forgotten, but eventually they did fix it.

 

It's perfectly obvious.

 

Nope, it doesn't sound any better when you read it out loud... This is possibly one of the most ludicrous pieces of counter-intuitive crap I have ever read here. Consider for a moment those of us who use meterless Ms with Sunny-16, adjusting shutter speed with the camera to our eye, operating by feel... I suppose we don't exist

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In response to Ornello: But the Barnack speed dials aren't any bigger, nor are they meant to be coupled to a light meter. So I don't see the necessary design relation between the size of the dial and the supposedly necessary use of a meter. Bear in mind also that M3 and M2 user manuals make no reference to the Leicameter as a requirement - the user is simply instructed to turn the dial directly.

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Nope, it doesn't sound any better when you read it out loud... This is possibly one of the most ludicrous pieces of counter-intuitive crap I have ever read here. Consider for a moment those of us who use meterless Ms with Sunny-16, adjusting shutter speed with the camera to our eye, operating by feel... I suppose we don't exist

 

Oh, so you restrict your work to warm days? With gloves on it is very difficult to turn the tiny shutter speed dial of pre-M5 cameras.

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Erm, tough call. I started with an M3, which I still own, and added an M6 later. Even though I'm adept at using sunny F16 with black & white film, I find myself using the M6 much more often. And it's not because of lens choice--my 35 is a goggled Summaron, so it uses the 50 framelines on either camera--it's because I find the built-in meter to be faster and more convenient. And pretty darned accurate, too, in most circumstances (I know when to ignore it/modify its reading).

 

Personally, I probably wouldn't swap it for an M4-P because of the meter; the fact that when I go out I usually choose my M6 over the M3 with its superior viewfinder tells me how much that means to my shooting experience. Still, I understand the attraction of the brass top plate, and I'm speaking as someone who has a meterless camera to use in those situations where the red LEDs might be distracting--although I've really never found them to be so.

 

If you do get the M4-P--certainly a sexy camera in its own right--I'll second the suggestion for a Sekonic L-308S to go along with it. That's what I use with my M3 when I need the input of a meter. It's small and accurate, a very useful accessory.

 

I think, in the end, it comes down to how you regard your camera. If you strictly view it in light of its utility in taking photos, the M6 wins: it's basically an M4-P with the addition of a meter. If the camera is as much an art object as a picture-making device, the M4-P might be a better option, especially as the one you're considering does have a meter available with it already.

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Oh, so you restrict your work to warm days? With gloves on it is very difficult to turn the tiny shutter speed dial of pre-M5 cameras.

 

It's difficult to pick your nose, too. That's why we evolved so that we could invent fingerless gloves, or even, the ability to take a glove off to adjust the shutter speed. Or even, pick our nose, if so inclined.

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With gloves on it is very difficult to turn the tiny shutter speed dial of pre-M5 cameras.

 

Rubbish.

 

Again.

 

I'm starting to realise - the evidence is mounting - you have never actually used a meterless M, have you?

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Hardly is it rot, Sahib. It's rather small, too small for many fingers. It was made that way for the meter to slip onto

 

You're not playing with your knob correctly. Instead of trying to grip it tightly with two fingers, try gently sliding the back of your index finger against its front. That way whatever the size of you hands you'll get the result you want.

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In response to Ornello: But the Barnack speed dials aren't any bigger, nor are they meant to be coupled to a light meter. So I don't see the necessary design relation between the size of the dial and the supposedly necessary use of a meter. Bear in mind also that M3 and M2 user manuals make no reference to the Leicameter as a requirement - the user is simply instructed to turn the dial directly.

 

Well they could have been thinking ahead 25 years. Those Germans, you know how smart they are...

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Rubbish.

 

Again.

 

I'm starting to realise - the evidence is mounting - you have never actually used a meterless M, have you?

 

 

Handled and sold a quite a few, but much preferred the M5. I have short think limbs, kind of fat fingers. The small shutter speed dial is not convenient for me and a lot of men.

Edited by Ornello

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