hydeca Posted February 20, 2012 Share #21 Posted February 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I guess it only goes to prove that the design is on the limit of the current technological restraints. Individually they are mature components but perhaps combining them is rare/unique to the M9 (i.e. AA filter is the normal design for DSLRs). Perhaps the IR filter expands/contracts due to environmental temperature to a different extent than the sensor, stressing the filter to the point where it fails. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Hi hydeca, Take a look here Cracked Sensor. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hydeca Posted February 20, 2012 Share #22 Posted February 20, 2012 ... everybody of us has seen other glasses cracking out of very different reasons. Fortunately not everybody but what where the reasons? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted February 20, 2012 Share #23 Posted February 20, 2012 Well, last time I saw a glass cracking, was when I hit the wine glass on the table and it dropped on the floor. The biggest effect I had once when a ladder slipped and hit a window. Did you never see glass cracking? Glass generally is infamous for this sort of behavior. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2012 Share #24 Posted February 20, 2012 Well, last time I saw a glass cracking, was when I hit the wine glass on the table and it dropped on the floor. The biggest effect I had once when a ladder slipped and hit a window. Did you never see glass cracking? Glass generally is infamous for this sort of behavior. Cracks me up... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted February 20, 2012 Share #25 Posted February 20, 2012 Did you never see glass cracking? Glass generally is infamous for this sort of behavior. Yeah the other night at the pub Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eritho Posted February 20, 2012 Share #26 Posted February 20, 2012 Therefore they change the sensor even if the camera is out of warranty. Nonetheless - for the isolated one-off cases - we cannot completerly rule out very different reasons for the crackings. As Leica can't prove those different reasons, it's fair enough they treat the cases as if they all were caused by a production/material fault. Do we really have an official statement from Leica that they will continue to change sensors after the warranty has expired? If so, for how long? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacapino Posted February 20, 2012 Share #27 Posted February 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Off course One does not buy a Leica if your a complete Pragmatist, I dont think. Even back in the days of film, the Nikon and Canon SLR`s had things to offer that a M did not have. Long telephotos, Flash systems, macro etc ... But , Sometimes less is more! What Leica did do well, it did better than anyone else, by a long shot(I think). I simply hope/wish the M9( would be ) that again for us! I m not on a war path or to slag Leica, I love my M2, and M6 far more than my Nikons. I likewise agree with your comparisons between the cameras and the vechiles. I also dnt own a Toyota(though it is for sure a good vehicle) In fact I bought my first motorvechile when I turned forty. I rode motorcycles till then I have worked for six yrs now , in the Northern Part of Iraq on a Project. Its a work in progress. When I came here , I didnt realise I would embark on this, but today it is important to me, and my cameras have made that possible, to some degree to record part of this journey, and document the people and the place. A Place many of us has not seen before, so It has grown, and become 'my mission' to do this. As time went along I got to know/realsise what equipment worked(for me), and what my own preferances was as well ..at first I shot with the D3, and zooms ..but I sold the zooms, went to primes. The 85, and 50, and 35 ... Mostly availablie light. Here and there some fill flash, but usually I dnt have time for that More than that,I m also a bit of a 'gearhead, I think. I like quality, and my father always instilled in us, there is no subsitute for it! My Fatehr had Leicas, and they where always there on the table ... objects of beauty, and the portraits my dad did was good, and he always spoke with love abt the lenses ... But only much much later cld I afford a M of my own, in fact only last year did I buy the M6, and the M2... The most beautifull cameras I ever owned. ANd I love using them. I still shoot film, but mostly at home, as processing here (iraq)is difficult, though I may bring some B&W developer with next time. I m not a PJ, and am self 'sponsered' all my kit I buy. Lately(last year or so) ... More and more I would go on youtube and watch clips of the legendary photographers, and watch them work, Eggelsworth, Gary Winograd, Bruce Gilden , And many others ...so many used Leicas. It made sense. And the work spoke to me. Steve Mccury (though he used mostly Nikon I think) What remains at the End? The Work. It does not matter if it was taken with a Nikon, or a Leica. I think a good photgrapher will be a good photographer, no matter the equipment. But the equipment makes sense too. The right tool for the right job etc ... The Leica carries a big appeal, but also kaes sense. the way you approach your work, subject... the awareness ... I dont want a machine gun, I rather have a sniping rifle ... I desperately want the M9P, just that I have my doubts, and am perhaps suffer from premature anxciety , maybe? Off course if one goes by the percentages then the likeliness of you ending with the same problem (like the carcked sensor) is slight, but it still is a concern to me. I have alway had the problem thinking with my heart, and having a fight with my own head(if that makes any sense at all!) My heart wants the M9P. My head is saying buy the Nikon D800(for the price of the Leica I can get two, or a nice lens etc and the body!) ... But I possible still would miss the Leica! what to do??! Kind Regards S(Lacapino) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2012 Share #28 Posted February 20, 2012 Get both the Leica and the Nikon? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 20, 2012 Share #29 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Hi Off course One does not buy a Leica if your a complete Pragmatist, I dont think. Even back in the days of film, the Nikon and Canon SLR`s had things to offer that a M did not have. Long telephotos, Flash systems, macro etc ... But , Sometimes less is more! What Leica did do well, it did better than anyone else, by a long shot(I think). I simply hope/wish the M9( would be ) that again for us! I m not on a war path or to slag Leica, I love my M2, and M6 far more than my Nikons. I likewise agree with your comparisons between the cameras and the vechiles. I also dnt own a Toyota(though it is for sure a good vehicle) In fact I bought my first motorvechile when I turned forty. I rode motorcycles till then I have worked for six yrs now , in the Northern Part of Iraq on a Project. Its a work in progress. When I came here , I didnt realise I would embark on this, but today it is important to me, and my cameras have made that possible, to some degree to record part of this journey, and document the people and the place. A Place many of us has not seen before, so It has grown, and become 'my mission' to do this. As time went along I got to know/realsise what equipment worked(for me), and what my own preferances was as well ..at first I shot with the D3, and zooms ..but I sold the zooms, went to primes. The 85, and 50, and 35 ... Mostly availablie light. Here and there some fill flash, but usually I dnt have time for that More than that,I m also a bit of a 'gearhead, I think. I like quality, and my father always instilled in us, there is no subsitute for it! My Fatehr had Leicas, and they where always there on the table ... objects of beauty, and the portraits my dad did was good, and he always spoke with love abt the lenses ... But only much much later cld I afford a M of my own, in fact only last year did I buy the M6, and the M2... The most beautifull cameras I ever owned. ANd I love using them. I still shoot film, but mostly at home, as processing here (iraq)is difficult, though I may bring some B&W developer with next time. I m not a PJ, and am self 'sponsered' all my kit I buy. Lately(last year or so) ... More and more I would go on youtube and watch clips of the legendary photographers, and watch them work, Eggelsworth, Gary Winograd, Bruce Gilden , And many others ...so many used Leicas. It made sense. And the work spoke to me. Steve Mccury (though he used mostly Nikon I think) What remains at the End? The Work. It does not matter if it was taken with a Nikon, or a Leica. I think a good photgrapher will be a good photographer, no matter the equipment. But the equipment makes sense too. The right tool for the right job etc ... The Leica carries a big appeal, but also kaes sense. the way you approach your work, subject... the awareness ... I dont want a machine gun, I rather have a sniping rifle ... I desperately want the M9P, just that I have my doubts, and am perhaps suffer from premature anxciety , maybe? Off course if one goes by the percentages then the likeliness of you ending with the same problem (like the carcked sensor) is slight, but it still is a concern to me. I have alway had the problem thinking with my heart, and having a fight with my own head(if that makes any sense at all!) My heart wants the M9P. My head is saying buy the Nikon D800(for the price of the Leica I can get two, or a nice lens etc and the body!) ... But I possible still would miss the Leica! what to do??! Kind Regards S(Lacapino) What you are experiencing is normal. I went through this recently. I did however make the move to Leica and am really very happy. I would still personally chose the Leica over the Nikon 800 and 800e. I would say though, if you can, hold on to your Nikon gear during the transition until you feel it safe to let go of your old style of shooting with dSLR's. I have held onto my dSLR kit and will use it from time to time as for like you say - the right tool for the right job. Edited February 20, 2012 by Paul J 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted February 20, 2012 Share #30 Posted February 20, 2012 I guess it only goes to prove that the design is on the limit of the current technological restraints. Or, that assembly is on the limit of the current human resources restraints Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2012 Share #31 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not convinced the IR filter is fitted to the sensor by human hands... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted February 21, 2012 Share #32 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not convinced the IR filter is fitted to the sensor by human hands... Interesting to read that quote of Stefan Daniel's statement the filters didn't crack when Leica performed heat shock testing... maybe its cosmic rays during shipping =) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Posted February 21, 2012 Share #33 Posted February 21, 2012 ... maybe its cosmic rays during shipping =) That´s it! :rolleyes: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJRB Posted February 21, 2012 Share #34 Posted February 21, 2012 Hi Off course One does not buy a Leica if your a complete Pragmatist, I dont think. Even back in the days of film, the Nikon and Canon SLR`s had things to offer that a M did not have. Long telephotos, Flash systems, macro etc ... But , Sometimes less is more! What Leica did do well, it did better than anyone else, by a long shot(I think). I simply hope/wish the M9( would be ) that again for us! I m not on a war path or to slag Leica, I love my M2, and M6 far more than my Nikons. I likewise agree with your comparisons between the cameras and the vechiles. I also dnt own a Toyota(though it is for sure a good vehicle) In fact I bought my first motorvechile when I turned forty. I rode motorcycles till then I have worked for six yrs now , in the Northern Part of Iraq on a Project. Its a work in progress. When I came here , I didnt realise I would embark on this, but today it is important to me, and my cameras have made that possible, to some degree to record part of this journey, and document the people and the place. A Place many of us has not seen before, so It has grown, and become 'my mission' to do this. As time went along I got to know/realsise what equipment worked(for me), and what my own preferances was as well ..at first I shot with the D3, and zooms ..but I sold the zooms, went to primes. The 85, and 50, and 35 ... Mostly availablie light. Here and there some fill flash, but usually I dnt have time for that More than that,I m also a bit of a 'gearhead, I think. I like quality, and my father always instilled in us, there is no subsitute for it! My Fatehr had Leicas, and they where always there on the table ... objects of beauty, and the portraits my dad did was good, and he always spoke with love abt the lenses ... But only much much later cld I afford a M of my own, in fact only last year did I buy the M6, and the M2... The most beautifull cameras I ever owned. ANd I love using them. I still shoot film, but mostly at home, as processing here (iraq)is difficult, though I may bring some B&W developer with next time. I m not a PJ, and am self 'sponsered' all my kit I buy. Lately(last year or so) ... More and more I would go on youtube and watch clips of the legendary photographers, and watch them work, Eggelsworth, Gary Winograd, Bruce Gilden , And many others ...so many used Leicas. It made sense. And the work spoke to me. Steve Mccury (though he used mostly Nikon I think) What remains at the End? The Work. It does not matter if it was taken with a Nikon, or a Leica. I think a good photgrapher will be a good photographer, no matter the equipment. But the equipment makes sense too. The right tool for the right job etc ... The Leica carries a big appeal, but also kaes sense. the way you approach your work, subject... the awareness ... I dont want a machine gun, I rather have a sniping rifle ... I desperately want the M9P, just that I have my doubts, and am perhaps suffer from premature anxciety , maybe? Off course if one goes by the percentages then the likeliness of you ending with the same problem (like the carcked sensor) is slight, but it still is a concern to me. I have alway had the problem thinking with my heart, and having a fight with my own head(if that makes any sense at all!) My heart wants the M9P. My head is saying buy the Nikon D800(for the price of the Leica I can get two, or a nice lens etc and the body!) ... But I possible still would miss the Leica! what to do??! Kind Regards S(Lacapino) For jobs you want to do with your camera its simple, you need a back up and most likely 2 back up camera's. Saw a film lately from an Australian photographer who had to take pictures from the new build formule one circuit somewhere in the middle east. He had 2 1Ds camera's with him and both failed. Luckly for him the repair only took days and he had another camera with him so he could take the pictures for those days. If he could not take the shots right their it would have cost him a lot of money and his reputation. You never know what will happen so a back up is really needed for those kind of projects. I can't imagine their is an leica dealer in Iraq who can do a quick fix on a broken M9, so depending only on one M9 would be crazy in my opinion. If you can't pay for 2 M9 body's take a look at an M8 or even using your M6 (take a shitload of film with you) Combining a nikon and leica system can be okey if you can leave one in your hotel. If you can't miss a photo from a shoot it means you have to carry both systems with you all the time with isn't nice to do. But besides this, you only read the bad situations on this (or any) forum. Most people with an M9 are just enjoying it and won't post here. For myself, I only have an M8, in all those years never had any problems. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted February 21, 2012 Share #35 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not convinced the IR filter is fitted to the sensor by human hands... Alternatives are somewhat limited if we stipulate to opposable thumbs Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2012 Share #36 Posted February 21, 2012 Chimping? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdtaylor Posted February 21, 2012 Share #37 Posted February 21, 2012 After reading this thread, wow, I really feel left out . No cracked sensor, fast service, good focus, and good cards and batteries. I must have one of the few well operating M9s. Seriously, IMHO the problems are a small percentage when compared to the quantity of distributed product. Others keep bringing luxury cars into these conversations, but why do reviews quote so many defects per 100- because they are not perfectly constructed. I have to admit my experience hasn't been perfect- I did have a Date Function that wouldn't the correct date. Leica replaced it, out of warranty, including the entire circuit board and CCD, and got it back to me in a week. By the way, Lacapino, good luck with your project. And use what works best for the Project at hand. Next week I am diving all week, and my Leica stays at home and my heavy-weight Nikon equipment is called to task. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplemind Posted February 21, 2012 Share #38 Posted February 21, 2012 hi, this is my first post, I will use Spanish-English translator something is real Leica does not fix the problem, because they appeared sensor · # 4.207.xxx cracked and started with # 3.8xxxxx leica did all that time? nothing Leica or broken sensor switch faulty sensor defective sound Leica was synonymous with high quality and quality control Leica Leica is no longer Leica died with the m3 m2, after that marketing bullshit snobbery, show room Leica M6 preview problems Leica m6 ttl problems speed dial, instead of steel ball made of plastic ball Leica LTM continues to shooting Leica M2 M3 M4 continue on without problems, that is high quality and reliability Leica m9 us problems 7k M9P Leica problems Leica M8 issues Leica can not afford to be synonymous with problems Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplemind Posted February 21, 2012 Share #39 Posted February 21, 2012 Now, after paying 7k and buy Leica M9, inside the box is a holy San Oskar Barnak pray that will not break the sensor. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted February 22, 2012 Share #40 Posted February 22, 2012 After reading this thread, wow, I really feel left out You are in the vast majority. There have only been two spikes by serial prefix and most failures were in the first (spike). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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