honcho Posted February 7, 2012 Share #21  Posted February 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am amazed at the incremental cost of the D800 over the D700. £650 more compared to the current D700 price at Jessops. What are they thinking?  Nikon set the price, not Jessops.  You are trying to compare two completely different cameras. That might go some way to answering your question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Hi honcho, Take a look here D4 v D800. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jplomley Posted February 7, 2012 Share #22 Â Posted February 7, 2012 Sure hope someone makes an adapter to fit S lenses onto a D800E. D800E would be a sweet back-up to the S2 without having to purchase additional Nikkor or Zeiss glass, let alone carrying it all. Â Surely Leica missed a big opportunity in not bringing out an R10 Â Leica missed an opportunity that Zeiss has capitalized upon, and that is making superior glass for Nikon and Canon DSLR's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted February 7, 2012 Share #23 Â Posted February 7, 2012 No, I will NOT be trading my M9 on it but I have my order in on the D800. The D4 is just too big for me even if it had the same 36mp sensor. I use Nikon mostly for long lens work and was really hoping for a large megapixel DX camera (D400)... Â A D800 in crop mode will give you over 15mp and you still have the benefit of 36mp FX. What's your point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdtrick Posted February 7, 2012 Share #24 Â Posted February 7, 2012 A D800 in crop mode will give you over 15mp and you still have the benefit of 36mp FX. What's your point? Â That was my point and why I already ordered it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 7, 2012 Share #25 Â Posted February 7, 2012 Looks like Canon have been seriously outgunned (sorry!) by Nikon in the MP stakes. The leaked specs for the 5DIII or 5DX have it at only 22MP. It will be interesting to see if all those pixels translate into IQ. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted February 8, 2012 Share #26  Posted February 8, 2012 About 6months ago, I sold all my Canon gear (quite extensive and some top class stuff) to buy a 40mp Pentax 645D. If the Nikon D800 holds up my Pentax purchase is looking like a dumb move. The Pentax handles well, has a Kodak CCD and no AA filter and does produce incredibly detailed shots, but has very little support in terms of new lenses from Pentax/Ricoh. The whole Pentax 645D project must now be in some doubt, who would buy a £9000 Pentax instead of a £3000 Nikon?  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share #27  Posted February 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) About 6months ago, I sold all my Canon gear (quite extensive and some top class stuff) to buy a 40mp Pentax 645D. If the Nikon D800 holds up my Pentax purchase is looking like a dumb move. The Pentax handles well, has a Kodak CCD and no AA filter and does produce incredibly detailed shots, but has very little support in terms of new lenses from Pentax/Ricoh. The whole Pentax 645D project must now be in some doubt, who would buy a £9000 Pentax instead of a £3000 Nikon? Jeff  Isn't the sensor size different?  Just as important as the number of pixels I'd have thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted February 8, 2012 Share #28  Posted February 8, 2012 Yes it is different but is it worth £6000?  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share #29  Posted February 8, 2012 Yes it is different but is it worth £6000? Jeff  Only results will tell! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted February 8, 2012 Share #30 Â Posted February 8, 2012 Fair enough then. What I wonder about is why pro DSLRs have to be so big and heavy? The D800 certainly looks a lot smaller than the D4, and I am certain will appeal to many pros -- just as the Canon 5D wins out over the 1D for many. I have seen as many -- maybe more -- pro photos supplied for publication taken with the 5D over the 1D. Fewer Nikons though to date, so the D800 could be a very significant camera indeed! Â Many people seem to be writing off DSLRs as mirrorless cameras take off. Maybe not so fast! DSLRs still appear to have significant advantages, such as faster focusing -- for now, anyway. Â And yes, interesting how it compares with Leica's S2, at a fraction of the price. Surely Leica missed a big opportunity in not bringing out an R10. Would such a camera still have a future? Â Interesting questions, David. I looked at trading my D700 for a D4 but was put off by the size and weight; much of this is to carry the extra battery capacity. The standard battery lasts ages and I would probably never need 8fps, so I really could not come up with a reason to trade (or purchase a battery pack). OK the D4 might seem to have better build quality, but I've only to pick up my Nikon F to see how far backward we have gone in that respect! I read today that the 800 is lighter than the 700, not by much though, it's still a hefty lump. Â I'll swerve around the mirror-less debate, I've yet to see anything electronic that compares to a piece of silvered glass. Â Leica were in no position to bring out an acceptable product to replace the R9; they could not hope to compete with the "huge two" in terms of budgets or capabilities and they were mired in the prematurely-launched M8 fiasco at that time. Â It is a great shame that the fabulous lenses for the R series have no place to go, except on such as the D700 and only then in an operational mode reminiscent of the early 1970s. I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate to provide a solution, there are just not enough potential users to make the development costs viable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 9, 2012 Share #31 Â Posted February 9, 2012 Part of the reason the pro DSLR's are tanks is due to construction and maximum shutter cycle life. The D4 is rated to 400,000 actuations, the D800 is 200,000. The Nikon DSLR's in single number series are pro bodies just as F, F2, F3 etc bodies were. Extremely durable, long shutter life and built to handle various environments - war zones, commercial work, rugby matches and first birthday parties. Â I've seen some real nice stuff with R glass on the Nikon bodies and it almost makes me wish I had kept some of what I had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted February 9, 2012 Share #32  Posted February 9, 2012 What I wonder about is why pro DSLRs have to be so big and heavy?It's not so long ago that they weren't. Three years ago the Fuji S5 Pro was the camera of choice for event photographers. It's a Nikon D200 with a Fuji sensor that produces images with very high dynamic range and wonderful skin tones. I bought a new one 3+ years ago for $550 from Ffordes when Fuji were selling them off. It's extremely reliable and built like a brick but it's not that much bigger than a Leica. I'm not upgrading... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/172195-d4-v-d800/?do=findComment&comment=1922651'>More sharing options...
sfage Posted February 9, 2012 Share #33 Â Posted February 9, 2012 Wouldn't this question be better suited to a Nikon forum? Â Well, we could move down to the thread wherein the question is asking what colour camera he/she should buy. Â Kind of difficult to compose an image if one can't make the aesthetic decision regarding what colour camera they should have... without asking someone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted February 9, 2012 Share #34 Â Posted February 9, 2012 'Big and heavy' is subjective. I'll happily take a D3x on multi-day backpacking trips without giving much thought to the size and weight. It's smaller and lighter than other cameras I use but much stronger construction. Â I have an almost 5 year old D3 that has been used every day since new, has survived a serious car accident that that wrote off a 4x4 and put me in hospital with a fractured neck and sternum in 2010 and been dropped twice onto hard floors. There's not a mark on it, it's never needed a repair or even had a service after over 300,000 actuations. I would not think twice about using it as a primary camera for any commission. Â There are few other cameras that would inspire me with such confidence in their durability as top-end Nikons. A little extra weight and bulk is a small price to pay for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted February 9, 2012 Share #35 Â Posted February 9, 2012 The other thing I'd like to say about not having discussions about other manufacturer's products is: Â 1) there are Leica users that have both Ms and Rs. Just because you / he / she / they happen to own one doesn't mean "everyone" wants one. Â 2) if Leica is going to continue to ignore R lens owners, and not bring out a body (product to sell us) for literally years -- then tough poop for them. Â Their loss. Â I would have very happily turned the 2500 I just spent in to 4 grand and given in to Leica. But, they don't make anything for me to buy. Â So? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted February 9, 2012 Share #36 Â Posted February 9, 2012 The F3 was much smaller than todays "industrial strenght" Nikons. The F4 was at the limit of the size I would accept for a 35mm camera, if I remember correctly, most of the additonal size was well invested in a very good viewfinder. Since digital cameras don't have to accomodate the space for two film spools, the size of the current digital models don't make sense to me. Â Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 9, 2012 Share #37 Â Posted February 9, 2012 Stefan, Â The size makes sense if you are a sports photographer, with autofocus and stabilisation constantly running plus shooting off hundreds of pictures during a match. For those for whom it does not make sense, Nikon kindly make the D800 for us and Canon the 5D Mk2 (soon to be Mk3 or "X"). It is when you see the size of those cameras, that you realise what an incredible job Leica has done on the S2. The issue there is that with a 30 x 45mm sensor, physics dictates the size and therefore weight of the lenses. The question with the new D800 sensor is; is a 30 x 45mm sensor needed? Is the S2 the perfect answer to the question nobody has asked? Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 10, 2012 Share #38  Posted February 10, 2012 The F3 was much smaller than todays "industrial strenght" Nikons. The F4 was at the limit of the size I would accept for a 35mm camera, if I remember correctly, most of the additonal size was well invested in a very good viewfinder. Since digital cameras don't have to accomodate the space for two film spools, the size of the current digital models don't make sense to me. Stefan  I can only speak from my own experience that the big Nikons balance nicely with heavy glass attached, the ergonomics are much to my liking shooting both horizontally & vertically. I've had to handhold a 300/2.8 on occasion on a D3 or D3s and it's not much of an issue, same goes for a 14-24/2.8 or 85/1.4. Makes it easier for me if anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted February 10, 2012 Share #39 Â Posted February 10, 2012 ....I'll swerve around the mirror-less debate, I've yet to see anything electronic that compares to a piece of silvered glass. ... Â But watch this space! Â ....Leica were in no position to bring out an acceptable product to replace the R9; they could not hope to compete with the "huge two" in terms of budgets or capabilities and they were mired in the prematurely-launched M8 fiasco at that time... Â Well, people were clamoring for a digital M, and the M9 has built on the previous model. The big two have had umpteen models over the same period on which to build. Precision optics and mechanical masterpieces were always Leica's forte, and not digital technology. But would an R10 have proved more viable than the S2? Moot point now, of course. Unless... Â ... built to handle various environments - war zones, commercial work, rugby matches and first birthday parties... Â Â Old film pro film SLRs like the first few Fs were definitely pretty hefty beasts, especially with a motordrive attached. So was the Leicaflex. I've only ever handled one -- but loved the balance, big clear viewfinder, and feeling of confidence. I still admired the original Olympus OM1 for its compact size and later got an OM2 and other OMs. The all-new OM-D is a mirrorless camera that is trying to repeat the success of the original. Mirrorless vs SLR? I think we'll see more on this.... Â ...The question with the new D800 sensor is; is a 30 x 45mm sensor needed? Is the S2 the perfect answer to the question nobody has asked? Â So, not just D800 vs D4 but D800 vs S2. Are larger sensors worth it? The only certainty is that sensor quality is certain to keep increasing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted February 10, 2012 Share #40 Â Posted February 10, 2012 I can only speak from my own experience that the big Nikons balance nicely with heavy glass attached, the ergonomics are much to my liking shooting both horizontally & vertically. I've had to handhold a 300/2.8 on occasion on a D3 or D3s and it's not much of an issue, same goes for a 14-24/2.8 or 85/1.4. Makes it easier for me if anything. Â I agree with this. Put those lenses on a mid range body such as a D700 and the balance is poor by comparison without a grip attached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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