trylab Posted February 5, 2012 Share #41  Posted February 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I live closer to arctic then Antarctica and today it’s cold outside, -37.5 C. I just had to test my M9! First 30 minutes outdoor went well, no issues and 30 shots. I left my M9 outdoor for another 1.5 hour and shot 10 more shots, and then it dies. Everything was in slow-motion, the shutter sound, previewing and shifting photos on the screen and so on, but the screen was clear and bright all the time. When it dies everything was dead.  Two of the pictures had colorful horizontal lines and several shots got the message Error Reading Metadata. But I did not miss any pictures. M9Info tells me that the sensor temperature was -18C, perhaps there is a temp limit at -18C in the program? Battery was not a problem in -37C; it is about 90% left. The M9 die long before the power. Anyway, after 30 minutes indoor everything was fine again. Day to day shooting down to -20C is not a big problem with M9. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   M9 V35/1.2 1600 ISO at -37.5C Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   M9 V35/1.2 1600 ISO at -37.5C ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171836-m9-dies-after-193-shots-in-antarctica/?do=findComment&comment=1918492'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Hi trylab, Take a look here M9 Dies after 193 shots in Antarctica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
K2D Posted February 5, 2012 Share #42  Posted February 5, 2012 I had a similar problem this past week on a trip to Munich. The previous days with around 2ºC there was no problem, but on the last day the temperature dropped to -11ºC and the camera began to fault. It was working well first but then turned off for no reason: shutter, menu, info buttons etc didn't work, I turned the camera OFF and ON again and nothing happened so I removed the battery and put it on again and the camera worked again. During that day I made this like 8-10 times and today when I was checking the files I noticed some red/purple lines on some of the photos, like if there was a problem transmitting the info to the SD card. Just for the record I used 2 different batteries and SD cards and same thing happened so the problem was with the camera itself.  It might be there is something wrong with my M9 which was working perfectly for over a year already, but for sure the problem has something to do with the cold because it happened only that day.  Usually I wouldn't think on bring a M9 to shoot on a -11ºC environment but take one of my film cameras, but as long as I read so many post about people using it on very cold situations with good results I believed it would be fine.  I never heard it did work only on 0º to 40º before really. So right now I am not sure if I should send it to Solms to check if there is something wrong with it or just don't use it again on under 0ºC temperatures.  Any advice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trylab Posted February 5, 2012 Share #43  Posted February 5, 2012 My advice is to keep your M9 warm, under your jacket if possible. I think it is a mechanical problem, oil get thicker in the cold, maybe in combination with electronic malfunction. I won’t be worried if there is a malfunction below freezing point, from time to time.  In contrast; I was just out and checking my car. Well, the car started - I have an engine-heater, fuel – diesel – goes to -42C, and I have fully synthetic oil everywhere. The dashboard light was on, but nothing was readable, the heater had a terrible whining noise and the engine sounded like a tractor engine, and the Xenon light don’t work in this cold.  It’s a Volkswagen, but I won’t send it back to Wolfsburg.  btw, it’s -39C now, so it’s still getting colder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted February 7, 2012 Share #44  Posted February 7, 2012 if you keep your camera warm under your jacket and then take it out into freezing temperatures, won't this create condensation on the lens surfaces as well as on and inside the camera body? i'm not sure about this or not, to be honest..could condensation cause the electronics to fail?  my m9 worked okie down to -29.5C in Moscow's deep winter & - 27C in northern japan  beautiful photo, trylab Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankBar Posted February 8, 2012 Share #45 Â Posted February 8, 2012 Although we don't know why the OP's M9 stopped working, this thread is now also about the effect of cold on the M9. My experience is not so good. Last Sunday, walking on the ice in Amsterdam's canals, the M9 stopped working after half an hour. A fresh, warm, battery worked for less then 10 pictures, a change to the first, now a warmer battery, gave me the opportunity to make a couple more shots, then it stopped again. I stopped also. I did not use a bag, I could not use a bag because I wanted to shoot like a street shooter. If you see something you shoot. The following days I went back on the ice, same temperature, other camera (5DII). No problems at all. So, maybe there are variations between M9's, I am not so happy with its behavior in the cold. The pictures by the way, are on Winter in Amsterdam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 8, 2012 Share #46 Â Posted February 8, 2012 if you keep your camera warm under your jacket and then take it out into freezing temperatures, won't this create condensation on the lens surfaces as well as on and inside the camera body? Â Yes it will. If the camera is going to die then let it die out in the open air. I've never had a problem with extended outdoor use of my M9 in low temperatures, but the last thing I would do is try to warm the camera up next to my body. Same for rain, never let moisture near it then cover it up somewhere warm, its better to leave it in the air. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anguish Posted February 9, 2012 Share #47 Â Posted February 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, this thread is now also about the M9 in the cold. Â My short message: the super conductivity of the heavy, metal body promotes the disfunction of the battery, especially ones not fully charged, in cold to very cold temperatures (teens F and lower) Â I ski with mine regularly in the backcountry in Wyoming and use it outdoors often. Here are some observations and strategies from over the years. Â I used to keep it across my chest ( in the neoprene case) but on cold days it would die, especially if I had anything but a full battery. Â Now I try to keep the camera warmer in such circumstances. This has come to mean keeping it inside my jacket, or pack, although you can't use it when it is in the pack. Â When I take it out for a shot, I have not seen condensation on the lens (Isn't this something that happens when you go from cold to warm?) If there is frost or condensation, I can wipe it off. Â I never begin with a battery less than full. I take a spare battery and keep it warm in a pants pocket. Â Upon camera failure, taking the battery out and warming it in a pocket or in your hands can briefly revive the camera. But putting the battery back into a super-cold camera body will do little good. Â Wind chill and moisture seem to add to the problem - makes sense since they wick heat. Â In below zero temperatures, I have seen a full battery drain through a very cold camera (exposed to the wind, blowing snow, cold on a tripod with no hands around it to keep it warm) very quickly - within perhaps fewer than 20 shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted February 9, 2012 Share #48  Posted February 9, 2012 Thanks you so much! I think this sums up all about this subject beautifully. Perhaps you should post it in the M9 Q&A under the question "What about a M9 in below freezing temperatures? " The honour should be yours  Again I had, day before yesterday, the exact experience as you describe. Including wrongly saved pictures, with artifacts. But one came out as expected (some PP of course): http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/222108-snow-amsterdam-part-ii.html#post1969828 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugat Posted February 11, 2012 Share #49 Â Posted February 11, 2012 Stunning photos Per. My only comment would be that you indicated that the OP's M9 failure was not caused by cold. In point of fact we have no idea what caused the failure, but it isn't really material. What matters is that no product, regardless of how rigorously tested and inspected, can achieve zero defect. The only solution is to have a backup. Redundancy is the best way to greatly increases the chances of a successful mission. Just ask NASA. Â The Space Shuttle had 5 redundant computers running the flight control system. If one failed the other computers "voted" it out, and the mission continued. If two failed the other three voted them both out. To the best of my knowledge this double failure never happened on a shuttle mission, but NASA was ready. Also, the 5th computer ran on completely different code, in case the other four computers crashed due to software. I know this never occurred on a mission. Â I'm not NASA, but for my part I have 2 M9 bodies, 4 batteries, 2 chargers (with 2 different power cables), numerous SD cards, and several lenses. It's the only way to be sure. Â It was not the five computers that crashed Discovery. It was isolation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelagia Posted February 11, 2012 Share #50  Posted February 11, 2012 The sensor temperature is recorded in EXIF and you can see it with M9info program.  My camera today (air temperature -10C) hang up at sensor temp about -4, as I see from the files. However, I am almost sure it is related to the battery's, not the camera's functioning. It is something to do with the info the camera gets from the battery chip. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171836-m9-dies-after-193-shots-in-antarctica/?do=findComment&comment=1924045'>More sharing options...
nugat Posted February 11, 2012 Share #51 Â Posted February 11, 2012 It was not the five computers that crashed Discovery. It was isolation. Actually it was o-ring on the Challenger and isolation on the Columbia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trylab Posted February 14, 2012 Share #52  Posted February 14, 2012 Pelagia, why are you almost sure it has something to do with the battery chip info?  When my M9 hang up it had something to do with the camera function (thick oil, cold weather) and not the battery.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171836-m9-dies-after-193-shots-in-antarctica/?do=findComment&comment=1926126'>More sharing options...
pelagia Posted February 14, 2012 Share #53 Â Posted February 14, 2012 Pelagia, why are you almost sure it has something to do with the battery chip info? Â Because if I change the battery, and even if I take the battery out and put the same battery back, the camera starts working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trylab Posted February 14, 2012 Share #54 Â Posted February 14, 2012 I buy that one. There are issues in this thread in that direction on some M9's. I live in a cold - and dry - area and have not that experience with my M9/X1. No electronic issues, only mechanical in the cold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelagia Posted February 14, 2012 Share #55 Â Posted February 14, 2012 Thanks. And I wish to emphasize that in my opinion it is the battery's electronic issue (I hope), not the camera's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trylab Posted February 14, 2012 Share #56 Â Posted February 14, 2012 What about the backup battery inside the M9? If you empty that (in the cold) it needs 60 hours recharge from the main battery. Somerthing there? Is that the reason you have to take out and insert the main battery? Cardiac massage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 14, 2012 Share #57 Â Posted February 14, 2012 Its good to hear of trouble-free operation in Greenland. Â There's no mention of min/max temperature in the technical data for film Ms yet Leica specify 0..40C for the M9. Why do they mention it? Leica used to offer a "cold-proofing" service for film Ms, meant when the camera was used at sub-zero temperatures for extended periods. It was essentialy replacing/removing all lubricant. Those cameras were quite rattly at normal temperatures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 14, 2012 Share #58 Â Posted February 14, 2012 What about the backup battery inside the M9?If you empty that (in the cold) it needs 60 hours recharge from the main battery. Somerthing there? Is that the reason you have to take out and insert the main battery? Cardiac massage. The battery does not empty - it just loses capacity for the period of time that it is cold. As it warms up the capacity will return. So just insert a warm battery from your pocket and put the cold one in that pocket - by the time the one in the camera has run down, the warmed-up one will be able to take over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2012 Share #59 Â Posted February 17, 2012 The battery does not empty - it just loses capacity for the period of time that it is cold. As it warms up the capacity will return. So just insert a warm battery from your pocket and put the cold one in that pocket - by the time the one in the camera has run down, the warmed-up one will be able to take over. Â Jaap , that's absolutely right, but I think there should be a better way of keeping capacity. I don't like changing the battery in stormy, rainy, or snowy weather, especialy when wearing thick gloves . It's not satisfying to think of being not carefully prepared, when the next photo might have been the shot of your life... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankBar Posted February 17, 2012 Share #60 Â Posted February 17, 2012 The battery does not empty - it just loses capacity for the period of time that it is cold. As it warms up the capacity will return. So just insert a warm battery from your pocket and put the cold one in that pocket - by the time the one in the camera has run down, the warmed-up one will be able to take over. Â For me it did not work (see post 45). The body felt extremely cold and the new battery lasted only for a couple of shots. By the way, that beautiful program, M9info, showed the temperature of the sensor to be 6 degrees. So, the battery regained some of it's power, but not enough to be workable. I could change my way of working and store the camera after each shot. But that makes it difficult and I did not have to do that with my 5DII. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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