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M8 - still a good choice?

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New M8 4500 US$ as street price on Luminous Landscape site, and quote regarding M9 when released:

 

At about $6,000 the now discontinued M8.2 seemed very expensive. But, because the M9 is a higher resolution full frame camera, at about $7,000 it no longer is priced that far out of line with other top-of-the-line full-frame 35mm cameras such as the Nikon D3x at $8,000 and the Canon 1Ds MKIII at $6,500

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I got my M8 new in January 2009 for $5,500, less a $500 rebate because the M8.2 was about to come out, and the original price for the M9 was, I think, $6,000. So I'm not sure the mythical M10 will be a lot more than the M9...we're not talking about a bigger sensor (physically), but rather a better sensor, some s/w improvements, etc., which generally don't drive the price up vs. previous versions of a camera/computer. All bets are off if there's a radical redesign, but Leica isn't exactly radical in the M department, thank god!

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M8:M8.2; M9:M9P roughly.

 

If a possible M10 has a hybrid or EVF viewfinder, apart from other small changes, I am sure the differential would be more than a notional amount. Even "street" prices, at the end of the M8 model's reign, showed about £1,000 difference in the UK.

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I got my M8 new in January 2009 for $5,500, less a $500 rebate because the M8.2 was about to come out, and the original price for the M9 was, I think, $6,000. So I'm not sure the mythical M10 will be a lot more than the M9...we're not talking about a bigger sensor (physically), but rather a better sensor, some s/w improvements, etc., which generally don't drive the price up vs. previous versions of a camera/computer. All bets are off if there's a radical redesign, but Leica isn't exactly radical in the M department, thank god!

 

I agree

In the UK the M9 is £5000, the M9-P is £5500

 

perhaps the M10 will be £5000 as well, or the M9-P will be used by Leica to push up the std price to £5500.

 

£6000 would be excessive. Any new technology does not contribute to the price as the manufacturing will be the same or even easier and the new technology today is the same price as the old technology was then

 

I would expect:

 

1. Better sensor

2. Better LCD screen

3. Live view

4. Some new functionality, e.g. video (BTW Leica has bags of experience with movie lenses)

5. Might be focus assist

6. Hopefully not a horrible EVF, even a hybrid would be nasty. More items projected onto OVF would be nice.

7. Projected frameline maybe. Could be more accurate and also allow Leica to introduce zooms for the M

 

For sure the M will not be AF. This would increase the size of the lenes and body. Plus its impossible to have an all metal lens for AF (the motor would burn out in a month). So you would get plastic/metal hybrids like the Canon & Nikon top lenses. No thanks on an M!

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....£6000 would be excessive....

 

I don't think launch pricing follows any particular principles. Clearly the product has to make a profit throughout the distribution chain. With the future value of the Euro highly uncertain, Leica will fix the price to cover themselves plus whatever they think the international market will bear. He is a wise man to predict with any certaintly what a hypothetical Leica M10 will eventually cost. I would be amazed if the price is comparable to that of the current M9P.

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I don't think launch pricing follows any particular principles. Clearly the product has to make a profit throughout the distribution chain. With the future value of the Euro highly uncertain, Leica will fix the price to cover themselves plus whatever they think the international market will bear. He is a wise man to predict with any certaintly what a hypothetical Leica M10 will eventually cost. I would be amazed if the price is comparable to that of the current M9P.

 

The Euro can go down as well as up

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Thank you for your comments. You are right. I mostly do wide angle shooting. My 21mm Super-Angulon works great on my M3. It won't on the M8, I believe. I am looking for a second body to go with the 35mm and or 50mm.

 

Bernhard

 

Ahhh, that's going to be tricky. If you're just looking for a second, digital body for your M lenses, then I say why not. A second-hand M8 will be a good option.

 

But if you're looking to retain your shooting style, especially on the wide angels, I don't know if that is the best idea. But then again, it's not really like you have an option with other cameras? Most cameras in the same price range and/or cheaper are 1.5x or 1.6x crops. So the M8's 1.33x crop is actually a little better?

 

This is tricky. But I'd say you buy a second-hand M8, shoot it. See if it suits your style. If you like it, keep it; if it doesn't work for you and your style, sell it for little to no loss.

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In Euro pricing I think the price jump from M8.2 to M9 was minimal. However, that was then.

 

If you look at the pricing for other flagship camera bodies - eg. Canon 1Dx and Nikon D4 - the trend seems to be up. Both these bodies are expected to be around the £5K mark so it wouldn't surprise me if Leica add another £500 or so to the RRP of the M9-P and price the M10 at a few quid under £6K.

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In Euro pricing I think the price jump from M8.2 to M9 was minimal. However, that was then.

 

If you look at the pricing for other flagship camera bodies - eg. Canon 1Dx and Nikon D4 - the trend seems to be up. Both these bodies are expected to be around the £5K mark so it wouldn't surprise me if Leica add another £500 or so to the RRP of the M9-P and price the M10 at a few quid under £6K.

 

thats JPY/GBP not EUR/GBP

 

for sure Leica will not change the M9-P price in the UK unless there is a major currency move before photokina. I expect they are reasonably hedged against short-medium term ccy moves

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I was worried. What happened to those M8 photos? The ones that I used to love. The ones that were made when the M8 was still fairly new. The ones that made everyone want to buy the new digital Leica. Where they still good? Since then the M9 has come out. And several Nikons, Canons, etc were released. These new cameras have all the bells and whistles. Does that mean those old M8 photos were no longer good?

 

I was worried.

 

But then I looked at LFI again, and realized something. A good photo made with a good camera is forever good.

 

I stopped worrying.

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I won't go on another rant about the Jekyll/Hyde nature of the M8 experience, that's pretty much covered here.

 

M8 is the best way to wait for an M9 or M10 or whatever gets your fancy. You might forget to go there at all.

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Historically, this has never happened before. The increase is usually quite substantial. Much depends on the amount of new technology incorporated.

 

That is slightly off topic because the OP has largely ruled out getting an M9. Lust aside, the M8 is a truly highly capable digital rangefinder. Unless your work or needs demand constant use of a super-wide angle lens, you will enjoy it immensely.

 

I think the price increase was due to moving to FF and the electronics additions, e.g. the M9 is dual CPU, the M8 is single cpu

 

I doubt there will be any or much price difference with the M10.

Perhaps £500 max if any

fingers crossed

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I would expect:

 

1. Better sensor

2. Better LCD screen

3. Live view

4. Some new functionality, e.g. video (BTW Leica has bags of experience with movie lenses)

5. Might be focus assist

6. Hopefully not a horrible EVF, even a hybrid would be nasty. More items projected onto OVF would be nice.

7. Projected frameline maybe. Could be more accurate and also allow Leica to introduce zooms for the M

 

For me, only two things ...

 

- Design as the M9 titanium and similar services.

- An effective sensor cleaning.

 

The rest, no ... I like the simplicity / ease of M (and I think that's the spirit)

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The M8 is and continues to be an excellent, lower cost option, to the M9. If you don't need ultra wide and can live with the UV/IR filters then it's a fantastic option. Pixel pitch is identical to the M9.

 

As for pricing I would expect prices to remain fairly stable throughout 2012 as demand outstrips supply of Leica cameras and lenses. This will have a trickle down effect and bolster used prices as buyers grab whatever is available.

 

The M10 will be $1000 more than the M9-P, or $8995. In the UK it will be £6000. I know people don't want to hear that, but Leica knows they will sell everything and will not leave profits on the table for their new M body.

Edited by StephenPatterson

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The M8 is and continues to be an excellent, lower cost option, to the M9. If you don't need ultra wide and can live with the UV/IR filters then it's a fantastic option.

 

You left out the crop factor, which is the biggest issue for many besides the filters (not me).

 

Jeff

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You left out the crop factor, which is the biggest issue for many besides the filters (not me).

 

Jeff

 

It was probably implied in the part of the statement, 'If you don't need ultra wide...'

 

The smaller sensor also affects the use of scale focusing, IMHO, making things more inconvenient. An article I read a short while ago covered this topic nicely:

 

Luminous landscape

 

The M8 is a lovely camera of course, an elegant picture-taking machine. For me, the more sophisticated M models are currently too expensive and I'd rather be putting any extra cash towards lenses.

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The M8 is a lovely camera of course, an elegant picture-taking machine. For me, the more sophisticated M models are currently too expensive and I'd rather be putting any extra cash towards lenses.

 

I own 2 M8.2s and don't consider them any less 'sophisticated' for my picture making purposes than the M9. In fact, I prefer the M8.2 for reasons stated in other posts, having nothing to do with cost. The camera is just one tool in the chain to make prints as far as I'm concerned.

 

Jeff

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Some days ago I was thinking about the new Fuji XP1.

But last week I visited some cotton farmers and when I look at the pictures now, I'm sure that this camera is still good tool for my purposes....

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