28mm f2.8 ASPH vs f2 ASPH ???

[colonel]

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Just thinking out loud! (well its a forum)

 

I am deciding between a new 28mm f2.8 ASPH and a second hand 28mm f2 ASPH, both the latest models

 

The f2 is in excellent condition and still under guarantee

 

The cost premium of the f2 is effectively 58% over the f2.8 price

 

If I sold on in the current environment I might be able to sell the f2 at the same price, or perhaps loose a few hundred.

Interestingly I estimate that I would at least loose a few hundred on the f2.8, so oddly the f2 is a safer short term bet. Although all bets are off in 12 months given the economy, leica lens supply, popularity of 28mm vs 35mm and any potential extras to the lens mount come the M10

 

Of course I intend to keep the lens for 10+ years, but to comfort myself I also work out the resale calculations

 

I intend to use the lens for landscape and architectural work, but a reasonable amount of "inside" lowish light pictures. I am aware the f2 is not as useful as it seems for indoors low light, unless you want to isolate a single person or object, in which case the extra stop is indispensible.

 

I can attest to the quality of the f2.8 as I used to have one on my M8 and stupidly sold it on when upgrading to the M9

 

I am extremely interested in anyone's opinion who has had both, tried both or is a user of the f2

[IkarusJohn]

I haven't used the 2.8, but I have the f/2, and I like it very much. It has more drama to it than the 35 (I know that's not what you're asking, but that is f/2 as well). The 2/28 just seems to have more character.

[Ozkar]

I owned both lenses until very recently. From f2.8 both lenses render virtually identically. I have often read that the Summicron is less contrasty than the Elmarit but my comparison shots did not show this to be the case. Since I predominantly use a 28 outdoors for landscapes, I'm more than satisfied with the Elmarit. It is also smaller, lighter and has less distortion than the Summicron. I also slightly prefer the bokeh of the Elmarit to the Summicron, although both are so close that you would be hard pressed to determine one from the other.

 

 

Just thinking out loud! (well its a forum)

 

I am deciding between a new 28mm f2.8 ASPH and a second hand 28mm f2 ASPH, both the latest models

 

The f2 is in excellent condition and still under guarantee

 

The cost premium of the f2 is effectively 58% over the f2.8 price

 

If I sold on in the current environment I might be able to sell the f2 at the same price, or perhaps loose a few hundred.

Interestingly I estimate that I would at least loose a few hundred on the f2.8, so oddly the f2 is a safer short term bet. Although all bets are off in 12 months given the economy, leica lens supply, popularity of 28mm vs 35mm and any potential extras to the lens mount come the M10

 

Of course I intend to keep the lens for 10+ years, but to comfort myself I also work out the resale calculations

 

I intend to use the lens for landscape and architectural work, but a reasonable amount of "inside" lowish light pictures. I am aware the f2 is not as useful as it seems for indoors low light, unless you want to isolate a single person or object, in which case the extra stop is indispensible.

 

I can attest to the quality of the f2.8 as I used to have one on my M8 and stupidly sold it on when upgrading to the M9

 

I am extremely interested in anyone's opinion who has had both, tried both or is a user of the f2

[cbretteville]

Just love that Summicron, both on film and on the M8.

Carl

[colonel]

I owned both lenses until very recently. From f2.8 both lenses render virtually identically. I have often read that the Summicron is less contrasty than the Elmarit but my comparison shots did not show this to be the case. Since I predominantly use a 28 outdoors for landscapes, I'm more than satisfied with the Elmarit. It is also smaller, lighter and has less distortion than the Summicron. I also slightly prefer the bokeh of the Elmarit to the Summicron, although both are so close that you would be hard pressed to determine one from the other.

 

Interesting

so you have confirmed the sometimes stated comment that the Summicron distorts more then the Elmarit, although I assume this is trivial even on landscapes ?

 

also you think from f2.8 upwards they are indistinguishable. I presume the summicron is slightly sharper in the corners then the Elmarit at f2.8 ?

 

The main thing that draws me to the Summicron is the extra stop for indoors, albeit I will use this less and the handling. the elmarit I found could sometiems be fiddly

 

Whats your view on the handling ?

[lct]

I'm using both currently. Both great lenses indeed. In general use, i find the Summicron a bit less contrasty with a slightly smoother bokeh. For night and indoor shootings the latter is a must have IMHO but the small size of the Elmarit asph is an advantage as well. At this highest quality level, you cannot go wrong with either lens anyway.

[bartok]

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Hi - completely agree with lct on this re bokeh and contrast. I had never been a 28mm user until the M8 arrived, when I bought the Elmarit since it has a field of view similar to my usual 35.

 

I used it for a while and got excellent results in a variety of situations, but eventually part exhcnaged for a new Summicron because of the extra stop.

 

I was never particularly happy with the crop factor affecting lenses on the M8 so I did a p/ex for an M9 as soon as they came out. This left me with a 28mm lens, which for nearly 30 years was a focal length I had no use for, tending to go to 21mm when I needed something wider than 35.

 

Guess what - I've kept it as now I find myself able to work with it - the Summicron is very flare free and particularly good in low light, with a quality I actually prefer to my 35ASPH.

 

Either way, both are truly excellent lenses, but if you can I'd go for the Summicron.

 

Good luck with your choice and picture making

[MarkP]

I would disagree with some of the others in that I think that the Summicron is an extraordinary lens and has benefits over the Elmarit way beyond the extra stop (which of course is very useful) . Some have referred to this as the 'best' Leica lens, which I thought was the usual crap until I started using it.

 

I had the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH for my M9 for about 4 months, sold it for what it cost me, and bought a new 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH. Like Bartok I was new to 28mm but it has rapidly become one of my favourite focal lengths.

 

I did not do a lens to lens comparison with the Elmarit, but the 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH photographs have a quality I don't see in those I shot with the 28 Elmarit. One may laugh but in fact I think there is a quality I don't see with any of my other Leica lenses (current 21/35/50 Summilux ASPHs, 2.0/75 Summicron, and 1.0/50 Noctilux), and like many lens qualities it isn't fully appreciable on the small low resolution images posted online. There is a clarity and life to the photographs (someone suggested in another thread perhaps due to the lens' microcontrast), and a beautiful delicate separation of subject with very gentle flow into the out of focus areas. I know this sounds like an emotive rather than a cold clinical description of the lens' results, but this is what I see and why I think some of my favourite photographs have been taken with this particular lens.

 

In fact, if I could only keep two Leica lenses they would be the 1.4/50 Summmilux ASPH and the 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH.

 

I would have no reservation in recommending you get the second-hand 28 Summicron over the Elmarit.

[Ozkar]

I have yet to see anyone post a comparison that demonstrates these differences between the Summicron and Elmarit.

 

 

I would disagree with some of the others in that I think that the Summicron is an extraordinary lens and has benefits over the Elmarit way beyond the extra stop (which of course is very useful) . Some have referred to this as the 'best' Leica lens, which I thought was the usual crap until I started using it.

 

I had the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH for my M9 for about 4 months, sold it for what it cost me, and bought a new 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH. Like Bartok I was new to 28mm but it has rapidly become one of my favourite focal lengths.

 

I did not do a lens to lens comparison with the Elmarit, but the 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH photographs have a quality I don't see in those I shot with the 28 Elmarit. One may laugh but in fact I think there is a quality I don't see with any of my other Leica lenses (current 21/35/50 Summilux ASPHs, 2.0/75 Summicron, and 1.0/50 Noctilux), and like many lens qualities it isn't fully appreciable on the small low resolution images posted online. There is a clarity and life to the photographs (someone suggested in another thread perhaps due to the lens' microcontrast), and a beautiful delicate separation of subject with very gentle flow into the out of focus areas. I know this sounds like an emotive rather than a cold clinical description of the lens' results, but this is what I see and why I think some of my favourite photographs have been taken with this particular lens.

 

In fact, if I could only keep two Leica lenses they would be the 1.4/50 Summmilux ASPH and the 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH.

 

I would have no reservation in recommending you get the second-hand 28 Summicron over the Elmarit.

[lct]

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[MarkP]

I have yet to see anyone post a comparison that demonstrates these differences between the Summicron and Elmarit.

 

I agree Ozkar, neither have I.

 

I made it clear that my impressions were completely subjective and difficult for me to quantify, and that there was no science whatsoever in my statement. I also made it clear that I too thought the praise that this lens receives was over the top until I used it myself.

 

Subjective...probably...but so is most of what is posted in this forum!

 

However, the photographs that this lens produces never cease to amaze and delight me. What more can I ask of this lens?

 

Mark

[Jeff S]

This topic has been covered many, many times here. Ok, here's one to save you the search.

 

You could also spend hours just reading the many threads on hood options for the Summicron.

 

I opted for the Summicron when I needed a 28; zero regrets.

 

Jeff

[colonel]

This topic has been covered many, many times here. Ok, here's one to save you the search.

 

You could also spend hours just reading the many threads on hood options for the Summicron.

 

I opted for the Summicron when I needed a 28; zero regrets.

 

Jeff

 

thanks for that thread

although its a M8 thread, and I know that there is not that much difference with the M9, but I would be more interested in M9 owner's views which I could not find that much of

[Jeff S]

thanks for that thread

although its a M8 thread, and I know that there is not that much difference with the M9, but I would be more interested in M9 owner's views which I could not find that much of

 

Well, I thought my reply might also provide a gentle suggestion for you to try the search box yourself. So, instead, I merely searched for "M9 and 28 summicron versus elmarit" and this came up first. There are likely many other threads.

 

Of course, the best solution is not to look at all these threads at all, but to rent or get a reputable dealer to allow you to use both lenses and see for yourself. These are very personal matters and nobody can know your preferences. For me, only prints matter, so that's how I compare. The threads are merely a means to narrow down the choices, but you've already done that.

 

Jeff

[colonel]

Well, I thought my reply might also provide a gentle suggestion for you to try the search box yourself. So, instead, I merely searched for "M9 and 28 summicron versus elmarit" and this came up first. There are likely many other threads.

 

Of course, the best solution is not to look at all these threads at all, but to rent or get a reputable dealer to allow you to use both lenses and see for yourself. These are very personal matters and nobody can know your preferences. For me, only prints matter, so that's how I compare. The threads are merely a means to narrow down the choices, but you've already done that.

 

Jeff

 

fearing my searching skills were not up it, I did one again

 

not much

 

the thread you posted about is about the 24mm elmarit

[Jeff S]

 

the thread you posted about is about the 24mm elmarit

 

Guess I'm not as careful with your searches as with mine.

 

You'll find that many threads on either of these lenses will turn up comments on the other. Here, for quick example, is a post on the Summicron, with the inevitable debate about the Elmarit.

 

You could also subscribe to Sean Reid's site if you like to read about these and other lens differences.

 

The issues you'll see debated time after time (besides the obvious speed issue) is contrast, size and VF blockage (considering various hood options).

 

Not much difference in real world shooting according to many. So, my advice remains the same... try them and see. You can get a Summicron here, for instance, if you don't have a dealer close by.

 

Jeff

[bpalme]

I love my Summicron on the M8. It's simply fantastic but...sometimes I think the elmarit would have been a better choice "for me". I'm not sure I really needed F2.

[Ecar]

I have both. My subjective observations, in a nutshell:

- Elmarit: higher contrast (may be wrongly confused with higher sharpness), size a bonus for travel/street photography

- Summicron: smoother rendering, more 3D-like (that's hard to explain, but is visible on prints), one-stop advantage an obvious benefit if/when you need it.

 

Both lenses saw a lot of usage on the M8, now less so. If it wasn't so difficult for me to part with lenses, I should probably sell one. In that case, the Elmarit would be the keeper, but that would be only based on my expected primary use for that focal length i.e., street.

If I were to do landscape/architecture, I'd go for the Summicron.

[sblitz]

ecar makes a good point that often drives my own decision on which lens to buy for a particular focal length. in truth, all of these lenses are really good and are far and away more than good enough for our usage. so i simply grade the price against the time on the camera. if it is a lens i will use infrequently, i will, for example, buy a zeiss at one-third the price instead of a leica. i am more than thrilled with 21mm biogon. on the other hand, the 50mm i use a lot and the lux asph is great and worth every penny i paid.

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[Borbarad]

Well 28mm is not a preferred view of field of mine. However the Lens-Hood of the Summicron would put me off. Looks ridiculous

 

B