Results of M8 Lockup/Failure Survey

[fotografr]

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Sorry Sean but it's meaninless. It's a self selecting survey. To find the true figure for breakdowns you need to select people at random and question them.

 

I would hardly characterize this as "meaningless." And how would you suggest selecting people at random? That would require having names and contact information from everyone who has purchased an M8, and that information is not available anywhere I'm aware of.

 

The bottom line is that a statistically significant number of M8 users have experienced total electronic failure. In my case, it is currently 2 out of 2 that have failed--both times under different circumstances and neither time in relation to static electricity. Would you at least allow me to conclude that my experience with the M8 has so far been 100% unsatisfactory?

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[fotografr]

I think there is a higher percentage of users on this forum looking for defects or reporting experienced defects. This would skew your survey results. Moreover, how can you verify that the respondents are in fact owners. I know this is a bit cynical. Just want to add some perspective. Interesting results just the same.

 

I was using my M8 and loving it. Turned it off and put it on a shelf, then picked it up 2 hours later and turned it on. No response. The camera was dead. A fresh battery had no effect, nor did changing the memory card. Believe me, I was not "looking for defects." I was delighted with the camera and if anything, I was looking beyond its shortcomings.

[stunsworth]

And how would you suggest selecting people at random? That would require having names and contact information from everyone who has purchased an M8, and that information is not available anywhere I'm aware of.

Which is exactly why the survey is meaninless if you are trying to use it to infer the failure rate of the M8. To do that you need a random sample of people, or have access to the data that Leica hold. The people who've expressed their opinions here have chosen to do so, and I would guess that people who have had problems are more likely to respond than those that haven't.

 

I'm not saying that Sean hasn't put a lot of effort into producing this, it's just that the conclusions you can reach from analysing the data are limited.

[fotografr]

Which is exactly why the survey is meaninless if you are trying to use it to infer the failure rate of the M8. To do that you need a random sample of people, or have access to the data that Leica hold. The people who've expressed their opinions here have chosen to do so, and I would guess that people who have had problems are more likely to respond than those that haven't.

 

I'm not saying that Sean hasn't put a lot of effort into producing this, it's just that the conclusions you can reach from analysing the data are limited.

 

Steve--I'm not going to argue semantics with you on this. Sean has already said he did not mean for this to be considered a scientific study. He was merely using the means available to him to give other members of this forum information about whether a particular problem they were reporting with their cameras was widespread or isolated. Personally, I appreciate knowing there are several others who have experienced the same problem that has now twice occurred with my M8 because that is information I can use in dealing with the people in Solms when my camera goes back. If you want to continue picking his study apart, that's up to you, but for my part I intend to use the information.

[stunsworth]

I'm not picking his study apart, what I'm trying to do is explore what conclusions you can draw from it. As far as I can see the only conclusion you can draw is that there have been multiple failures of M8s after they have been sold. Whether that represents 1 in 10, or 1 in 1000 is impossible to say.

 

If the true figure is 1 in 1000 then I'd say Leica doesn't have a problem. If it's 1 in 10 then they do. But only Leica knows these figures.

[rvaubel]

I'm not picking his study apart, what I'm trying to do is explore what conclusions you can draw from it. As far as I can see the only conclusion you can draw is that there have been multiple failures of M8s after they have been sold. Whether that represents 1 in 10, or 1 in 1000 is impossible to say.

 

If the true figure is 1 in 1000 then I'd say Leica doesn't have a problem. If it's 1 in 10 then they do. But only Leica knows these figures.

 

Let me say I love my M8 and have had no problems. However Sean's survey would indicate (at least to me) that there is roughly a one in ten chance of getting a camera that will sooner or later fail in a way that either needs to be replaced or returned to Sohn. Of these failures about 1/2 will happen real quick. Since the cameras are in fair distribution now, those users can get a immediate replacement.

 

So, I figure, a new buyer has about a 5% chance of getting a camera that has to be returned to Sohn for a serious problem. O.K maybe its 1%. The point is for 19 of 20 users they will NOT have to return their camera. If this was any other camera, those odds would not be acceptable. But the choice is clear, accept the odds or don't get the camera. It's as simple as that

 

By the way, I got the camera and am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

And I am loving it

 

Rex

[colorflow]

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Well, I have to amend my survey input. My gen1 died (details in my thread 'buttons on the back died...' ) after three months and is on its way to Solms.

 

Alan