Learner Posted September 6, 2011 Share #1 Posted September 6, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) What do B&W film buffs think of getting B&W images by scanning colour negs and converting the images to B&W in Photoshop? Is such conversion sacrilege? Can only the trained eye detect that which came from colour negs and conversion, from that which came B&W film? To put it another way, can a B&W image derived from colour have soul, depth, spirit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Hi Learner, Take a look here B&W image derived from colour film. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
prunelle Posted September 7, 2011 Share #2 Posted September 7, 2011 What about trying and seeing by yourself? A b&w "buff". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted September 7, 2011 Share #3 Posted September 7, 2011 Learner, I think you pose two quite different questions there. Whether successful and convincing B&W conversions can be derived from colour sources depends on several things: how good the conversion routine is; how well the person doing the processing carries out this post-processing; and how suitable the original picture is for B&W. If you want to examine some then all of the following started out on colour film: thirtyfivemil: Scent of lime and camphor thirtyfivemil: Michaelgate, Lincoln thirtyfivemil: Mysterious moment thirtyfivemil: World of Leather THis sequence: thirtyfivemil: Birmingham mods And this sequence: thirtyfivemil: Irish faces But whether these -- or indeed any other photographs -- have "soul, depth, spirit" is an entirely different question. Nor should it suggest (at least to my mind) that B&W necessarily produces "soul, depth, spirit"..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted September 7, 2011 Share #4 Posted September 7, 2011 Have a look at Azzo's B&W work. That is, afaik, shot on colour film. Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted September 9, 2011 Share #5 Posted September 9, 2011 changing the color saturation will, in turn, give you more ability to impact the b&w photo in terms of the effectiveness of various filters in photoshop or silver efex or capture one or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 10, 2011 Share #6 Posted September 10, 2011 What do B&W film buffs think of getting B&W images by scanning colour negs and converting the images to B&W in Photoshop Whatever floats your boat. In later versions of Photoshop there is a feature to help you do that under Image - Adjustments - Black & White. If you want a real challenge, shoot in B&W and convert to color. As you can see, it ain't easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 10, 2011 Share #7 Posted September 10, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) To put it another way, can a B&W image derived from colour have soul, depth, spirit? All B&W images are derived from colour one way or another. The type of film hardly matters because almost everybody who is working regularly with B&W images will have looked at the colourful world in front of them and made the composition and exposure with a B&W image in their mind's eye to start with. Since film has no depth, soul, or spirit (really it doesn't, its just a recording medium) those elements need to come from the photographer. There are a lot of advantages in shooting colour stock and converting to B&W in post processing, such as the ability to apply traditional B&W filters instead of carrying them around in the field. Obviously it still depends on finding a colour film that has the sort of grain you like. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 10, 2011 Share #8 Posted September 10, 2011 All B&W images are derived from colour one way or another So true. I wish I knew who told me this so I could credit: "Black and White photography is color without hue." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 10, 2011 Share #9 Posted September 10, 2011 Almost all digi cameras shoot color. I say almost because i never heard of one that did not. Simply convert the file to monochrome. There are around 3 ways to do it in PS. scan a color neg and it is the same as a digi camera file. Go thru noise reduction, then add grain to taste. Various ways again. Make it sharp, soft, clumpy, smooth, large small. Do it on a 18% grey layer on top. Then use blend if to confine the blend to mid tones so grain does not show up in shadows or whites. "Split" the sliders with option keys to make smooth transitions. Then you might want to use curves to match the response cure of your favorite film, short or long toe etc. When done, it will look just like B&W film of your choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 10, 2011 Share #10 Posted September 10, 2011 Almost all digi cameras shoot color. I say almost because i never heard of one that did not. FAPP you are right. There was/is the MegaVision digital camera back which is B&W and irrelevant to our discussion, but there is (or was) an IR and UV sensitive camera sold for forensic work. One had to sign a special release, agreement to get one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted September 10, 2011 Share #11 Posted September 10, 2011 There was a Kodak digital camera in B&W on a Nikon body. I think it was 2 mega pixel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 10, 2011 Share #12 Posted September 10, 2011 "Almost all digi cameras shoot color. I say almost because i never heard of one that did not." There have been a very small number - Kodak made monochrome versions of a couple of their Nikon-based DSLRs, and no doubt there have been some "conversions" over the years by removing the Bayer filters. Increases the effective ISO by a couple of stops. Never found a significant market. Kodak 760m Review Technically some of NASAs cameras have been monochrome, making multiple exposures through external color (and/or non-visible-light) filters for color or false UV/IR images. Viking Mars lander, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted September 10, 2011 Share #13 Posted September 10, 2011 All I do is desaturate the image in Graphic Converter. A one-step not a multi-step process. Is there any advantage in using B+W film at all, though? Converting to digital requires scanning. But does B+W scan as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digbyhp Posted September 10, 2011 Share #14 Posted September 10, 2011 All I do is desaturate the image in Graphic Converter. A one-step not a multi-step process. Is there any advantage in using B+W film at all, though? Converting to digital requires scanning. But does B+W scan as well? It might be an advantage if one still wants to wet print from the negative as well as have a digital scan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 10, 2011 Share #15 Posted September 10, 2011 All I do is desaturate the image in Graphic Converter. A one-step not a multi-step process. Well, that's just plain silly because you have no control of what channels are emphasized or not. B&W film is not monochromatic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 11, 2011 Share #16 Posted September 11, 2011 It might be an advantage if one still wants to wet print from the negative as well as have a digital scan. Read this first: "Making Digital Negatives" Information It ain't intuitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 12, 2011 Share #17 Posted September 12, 2011 First, while I don't know about "soul, depth, spirit", a compelling B&W image can be derived from a color original, digital or film. It just takes skill and technique - as does getting a compelling B&W image from B&W film. It is much harder to do using a traditional darkroom - either one has to accept some exposure and tonal problems (due to normal B&W paper being blind to red and some yellow - e.g. the orange base of color negs), or use panchromatic paper in total darkness. Scanning, of course, avoids these problems. Generally, color films, esp. negatives, tend to have softer-edged grain (and detail) than silver films of the same ISO. The difference being an image formed of dye clouds rather than silver crystals. If tight, crisp grain at higher ISOs is part of your aesthetic, that can be a drawback to using color film instead of B&W film. I take a slight issue with pico's wording: B&W film IS monochromatic (which refers to the image it produces). But different B&W films do have different spectral responses - Tri-X was famous for "white skies" due to extra blue sensitivity. Personally, I mostly use Camera Raw's slider to reduce saturation to zero - I'm usually fine with whatever default color mix Adobe uses (more tone to blue skies than unfiltered Tri-X). Or scan direct to monochrome using Nikon's default conversion. I subscribe to Bill Pierce's idea that B&W is the "vin ordinaire" of photography - its main value is that it is simple and without the complications of color, so I avoid complicating the conversion process. But - at times I DO want more control of how colors translate to tones. If the defaults are unsatisfactory (reds too dark in B&W, or some such), I bring the image into Photoshop still in color, and play with the channel mixer, or the "saturation" dialogue box, to get a conversion I like more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Allsopp Posted September 12, 2011 Share #18 Posted September 12, 2011 All my mono work these days if from digital colour files but a few of my slides from 30 years ago have converted nicely so why not from colour film Bones of a Giant originally a colour slide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted September 12, 2011 Share #19 Posted September 12, 2011 I like to make B&W from B&W films, but this is just my idea and one of the available options. I tried to make it from color film and it works. It is a solution I use when I have too many B&W films to develop... The main advantage to use color film, IMO is that you can later decide if you want colors or B&W. In this case the process becomes similar to the digital workflow. m7 ; heliar 50mm F2 anniversary edition; kodak ektar 100 ; CS3 + LR Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/161257-bw-image-derived-from-colour-film/?do=findComment&comment=1791107'>More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 12, 2011 Share #20 Posted September 12, 2011 Well, that's just plain silly because you have no control of what channels are emphasized or not. B&W film is not monochromatic. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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