gdb Posted February 12, 2007 Share #1  Posted February 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Other bad news received an hour ago:  Hello  I have just received a reply from the official Danish distributor:  "M.h.t. leveringen, s=E5 er det netop i sidste uge (07.02.07) annonceret = at DMR er udg=E5et og totalt udsolgt.=20 Desv=E6rre, for der er ikke nogen afl=F8ser p=E5 vej til R-systemet og = =F8jensynligt sker der ikke noget p=E5 den front f=F8r tidligst i = slutningen af 2008."  In English, the DMR has been decommissioned and is totally sold out, no = scheduled news on the R front until end of 2008.  The DMR is actually already gone from the Danish outlets, so the lucky = owners of the DMR enjoy it:(  /T     Tim Bedsted Senior Principal Consultant, Ph.D Risk Intelligence  T: +45 70282857, M: +45 27212857 E: Tim.Bedsted@sdk.sas.com  SAS Institute A/S=20 Koebmagergade 7-9=20 DK - 1150 Copenhagen K http://www.sas.com/dk=20  T: +45 70282870, F: +45 70282991    Does it mean "No R 10 until end of 2008?"  This would suppose that the Danish are still involved with Leica for the making of the R 10. Can this be possible?  Cheers Gérard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Hi gdb, Take a look here DMR and R line. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted February 12, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted February 12, 2007 The R line needs an affordable digital offer. The DMR was not that reasonable product, except for existing R8/R9 owners. The R9 + DMR was too expensive. Â It is very difficult to keep alive a line of cameras and lenses without a digital ground. Maybe Leica has stopped the production in the R line for the moment, until the R10 is ready. The end of 2008 (20 months) is too far. I hope they are able to finish the R10 much sooner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_b_elmer Posted February 12, 2007 Share #3  Posted February 12, 2007 Other bad news received an hour ago: Hello  I have just received a reply from the official Danish distributor:  "M.h.t. leveringen, s=E5 er det netop i sidste uge (07.02.07) annonceret = at DMR er udg=E5et og totalt udsolgt.=20 Desv=E6rre, for der er ikke nogen afl=F8ser p=E5 vej til R-systemet og = =F8jensynligt sker der ikke noget p=E5 den front f=F8r tidligst i = slutningen af 2008."  In English, the DMR has been decommissioned and is totally sold out, no = scheduled news on the R front until end of 2008.  The DMR is actually already gone from the Danish outlets, so the lucky = owners of the DMR enjoy it:(  /T     Tim Bedsted Senior Principal Consultant, Ph.D Risk Intelligence  T: +45 70282857, M: +45 27212857 E: Tim.Bedsted@sdk.sas.com  SAS Institute A/S=20 Koebmagergade 7-9=20 DK - 1150 Copenhagen K www.sas.com/dk=20  T: +45 70282870, F: +45 70282991    Does it mean "No R 10 until end of 2008?"  This would suppose that the Danish are still involved with Leica for the making of the R 10. Can this be possible?  Cheers Gérard  The Danish text is not as firm with regard to the future prospects for the R-line as has been translated above. In fact, the message only says, that obviously ("it seems") there won't be anything new on the R- front until late 2008.  I can't see why Leica should not make an announcement of its plans for the R-line in the near future. We have become used to waiting for Leica's products for some time after their initial announcement. So, let us hope that leica will announce the R 10 soon and give more details on its sensor, firmware, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 12, 2007 Share #4  Posted February 12, 2007 This would suppose that the Danish are still involved with Leica for the making of the R 10. Can this be possible? You mean Imacon? No, that’s quite unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted February 12, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted February 12, 2007 If Leica can't come out with an R10 until late 2008 they may as well discontinue their digital slr line of cameras and lenses. None of the existing R8/R9 base can wait the equivalent of two more years. That is just fact. It would be one thing if the DMR was still in production. But those slr shooters that don't have a DMR or have only one DMR would be at a huge risk. Â Leica, with this move, if it is accurate, will have to re-build almost their entire SLR base in two years. That makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted February 12, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted February 12, 2007 If Leica can't come out with an R10 until late 2008 they may as well discontinue their digital slr line of cameras and lenses. None of the existing R8/R9 base can wait the equivalent of two more years. That is just fact. Â Do you plan to continue to repeat this nonsense in every thread about the subject ? Because your so called "fact" is not supported by any of the DMR owners here. Â Maybe you are making a confusion between "facts" and your dreams ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted February 12, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted February 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) No Pascal, you just continue to put your head in the sand. When you finally pull it out I hope Leica is still around for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
like_no_other Posted February 12, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted February 12, 2007 If Leica can't come out with an R10 until late 2008 they may as well discontinue their digital slr line of cameras and lenses. None of the existing R8/R9 base can wait the equivalent of two more years. That is just fact. It would be one thing if the DMR was still in production. But those slr shooters that don't have a DMR or have only one DMR would be at a huge risk. Â Leica, with this move, if it is accurate, will have to re-build almost their entire SLR base in two years. That makes no sense. Â Just wait for PMA, about 6 weeks. They will have to tell sth. about the future of the R System. In your point I'm with you. It doesn't make sense to offer a lens system without digital body or digi back for two years. This would be just too expensive for the company. Many costs and nearly no sales. Given that it would be a possibility to stay only with the FT system for a while and build up a new AF R10 with new lenses in the meanwhile. Â This is only one scenario of many, mainly probable in the case that Leica doesn't see a profitable future in marketing a MF digital SLR System nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englander Posted February 12, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted February 12, 2007 I think that if Leica is clever they may do what many on this site have apparently already done--marry their lenses to Canon and Nikon. Why should Zeiss be the only one to do this? Leica is known more for its lenses than its cameras; they could easily stop trying to compete in the dSLR line and yet make the best lenses for cameras that are beyond their capabilities to produce. Lenses that take advantage of focus confirmation, communication of EXIF, maybe even with some way to have auto-stop-down, but still with critical manual focus. Since they would always be manual focus, they might not directly compete with any thing currently in Canon and Nikon's line. Certainly it is a way to keep going while taking years to bring out a R10. Â Joe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted February 12, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted February 12, 2007 No Pascal, you just continue to put your head in the sand. When you finally pull it out I hope Leica is still around for you. Â People like you have predicted the end of Leica for decades now. In the meantime, Minolta, Agfa, Contax and other have failed but Leica is still around. Â If you can show me evidence that your predicted the doom of one of these companies, I may find your Leica bashing more credible. In the meantime, you are still a guy unable to prove his point and presenting things as "fact" when you have all evidence of the contrary. Â Do you work for G. W. Bush and were you the one who was sure of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Irak ? Looks like so for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgeoffrion Posted February 12, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted February 12, 2007 What if Nikon or Canon brought out the next "DMR" (yes, without an antialiasing filter) rather than Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted February 12, 2007 Share #12  Posted February 12, 2007 What if Nikon or Canon brought out the next "DMR" (yes, without an antialiasing filter) rather than Leica?  well they would probably need the Kodak chip and the patent thing might be a problem and they would have to admit their lenses are less than Leica  so Canon wont do that because they use CMOS then they would have more moire than more and less edge definition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted February 12, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted February 12, 2007 What if Nikon or Canon brought out the next "DMR" (yes, without an antialiasing filter) rather than Leica? Â Nice, but only if they make it available in Leica-R mount... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 12, 2007 Share #14 Â Posted February 12, 2007 Well, Leica may maintain the R line of lenses with no significant additional costs in their catalogue. They may distribute and even develop new R lenses, waiting for the R10. Leica will not announce a temporal stop in the production of R lenses, even if it occurs, because the distribution can follow from the existing stock. Leica will not lose money doing that. It is a question of timing. It makes sense to put resources into the production of R gear again when the R10 is near to its shipping date, anticipating the new demand. 20 months is a too long timeframe, except if Leica presents the camera before, with a shipping date for a few months later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blovitch Posted February 12, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted February 12, 2007 Are they going to continue to produce the R9 I wonder ? Â I should think it will still sell in limited numbers. Â My dealer told me that Leica are offering to buy back any stock of DMR backs as they are anticipating a big rush to snap up the final unsold units. Â -Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted February 12, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted February 12, 2007 Leica nearly put themselves out of business with the huge investment in the R8/9, so one has to ask the question as to whether they have the resources themselves to develop an R10 digital on the sort of time scale required before it itself becomes obsolete. Dare I say it, but might they do what they did with the R3-R7, and find a chassis from one of the big boys (a latter-day Minolta as it were) upon which to build? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdb Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share #17  Posted February 12, 2007 One of your suggestions, honorable members of this forum, drew my attention.  About a hypothetical "japanese DMR", so to speak, when Nikon came out with their F6, a film camera body filled with electronics and with a removable back, I thought they would copy the idea of a digital back and intended to come out with one that would fit the F6. At that time, the DMR was not yet available, but it was in the pipeline, and every photographer knew about it. But until now, I never heard or read something about a digital back for the F6. I even wonder what is the place of this camera in today's market.  My question is : why would Nikon (or Canon or anybody else) build a digital back for Leica ? It does not make sense for me, does it ? Would they make any kind of profit ? Your opinions are welcome.  As for myself, I feel that we should remain calm and patient? I don't think we help Leica by increasing the pressure on them. As Pascal pointed out, they always behaved in a very polite way with their customers, they informed us as far as they were allowed to, and I am sure they are very much concerned about the discontinued DMR.  Prior to 1983, I was a nikonist (without a capital N: sorry for not having found the Truth of Photographic Enlightment earlier...LOL). I can tell you that the relationship with Nikon was less than friendly because I was not a professional. They also do advertise for stuff that isn't available before months, as any other brand.  The loss of the DMR is certainly a sad event, and I bitterly miss mine, for it is a fantastic tool. But I prefer to keep trusting Leica and wait for the R 10. I am sure they will make something second to none. They have to, and they know it.  I also think that with the success of the M8, their financial situation is not as dramatic as it was by the time where the release of the DMR was constantly postponed. Remember how long we waited for it, and how anxious we were that they could go bankrupt ?  They are still standing there and still able to surprise us.  Well, this was only my personal feelings.  Cheers, an let's cross fingers for Leica Gérard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted February 12, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted February 12, 2007 Well Photokina is the traditional launching time for new Leica cameras, so we could expect something regarding a new R line at Photokina 2008, with a "teaser" hinting at what that could be at Photokina 2007? Â Meanwhile wouldn't it be nice if a third party manufacturer of pro digital backs saw a marketing opportunity to produce their own high definition 16 bit back for the R8/9! Â Nothing in the rule book that says it has to be a Leica product.........it is just an accessory for a film camera after all. We might even get some support as well, such as firmware updates. Any bright young breakaway engineers from Imacon, Leaf, Jenoptik willing to have a go? Â Ah well, we can always dream!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted February 12, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted February 12, 2007 sweet dreams... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 12, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted February 12, 2007 None of the existing R8/R9 base can wait the equivalent of two more years. That is just fact. Â Gary, that is not a fact. That is just some words in your post. If you have some real facts, please post them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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