Anyone have first hand knowledge of Leica listening?

[Michael Jones]

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I am just curious, does any member of this forum have personal knowledge of the Leica factory using the awsome power of this internet forum to identify and to proactively diagnose potential manufacturing issues? It is a tremendous marketing tool and customer satisfaction tool - almost a window into the collective conciousness of their buying public.

 

Sean has provided a tremendous service in collecting data on camera lock-ups as have many others in just bringing these issues to the table. If Leica tested cameras all day long in their factory they could not get a more realistic assesment of how they will operate in the field than the reports from users on this forum.

 

Does anyone have first hand knowledge that Leica is reviewing M8 performance data from this forum?

[Jamie Roberts]

Well, yes; I know first hand that Leica talks to many forum members here directly, and not just official reviewers, if not often to me personally (I have had contact with Leica directly over a DMR repair issue, and on something related to R lens compatibilty, but those weren't forum generated).

 

As a result, it's quite reasonable to think they have people watching their customer forum quite diligently. And taking all the reports very seriously.

[sean_reid]

I bring every legitimate concern about the M8 (raised here, elsewhere or in my own testing) to Leica's attention in my regular discussions with them. Others communicate with them as well. So, if something important comes up on this forum, Leica usually knows about it in short order.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[hammam]

...Does anyone have first hand knowledge that Leica is reviewing M8 performance data from this forum?

 

They would be very foolish not to, from this forum as well as some others, since they are the forums of such knowledgeable and helpful pionneers as the Seans, the Jamies, the Guys and a few others of this world.

[sdai]

But Michael ... this forum is officially sponsored by Leica. When you post here, you're already talking to Leica directly.

[pascal_meheut]

They read the forum, they talk to some people, they are usually quite aware of the problems and when one is brought to their attention, they try to solve it...

 

But as far as I know, they do not want to be involved in the Internet frenzy where people do not listen and cry because they want their pony right now, not even waiting for Christmas

[R10dreamer]

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But as far as I know, they do not want to be involved in the Internet frenzy where people do not listen and cry because they want their pony right now, not even waiting for Christmas

 

This is ridiculous. Leica is running a BUSINESS. It is not Christmas. It is profits and losses. And believe me the losses will climb if Leica can't keep up with the industry it is competing with. Being 2-3 years behind everyone else is not the way to make profits. And Leica has shown that by going slow they haven't been able to eliminate major mistakes (see the M8). Every company has to have an advantage somewhere, whether it is quality, service, technology, marketing, etc. Leica's only advantage to date is the quality of their glass. In every other aspect they are way behind the competition. I believe that most of us are here because of the glass but even the glass doesn't allow Leica to introduce bi-planes when everyone else is producing jets. Unless of course they want their niche market to include about 10,000 people world wide. The camera industry has changed, just like it changed with the intro of 35mm years ago. Leica was on the forfront then. They are the caboose now. But their customer base is obviously very loyal and for that loyalty they need to be treated with respect and given some hope with honest communication.

[pascal_meheut]

Exactly was I was talking about. But thanks for Marketing 101.

[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped} Leica's only advantage to date is the quality of their glass. In every other aspect they are way behind the competition. I believe that most of us are here because of the glass but even the glass doesn't allow Leica to introduce bi-planes when everyone else is producing jets. {snipped}

 

This just isn't true, and you clearly don't own an M8.

 

The M8

• is the only high end digital rangefinder (sorry Epson)
  
• has the highest colour depth of any small camera, except the DMR
  
• has the widest exposure latitude I've seen, especially in highlights, which are so crucial for great digital capture

To me those are pretty great advantages, all apart from the lenses.

[abrewer]

I am just curious, does any member of this forum have personal knowledge of the Leica factory using the awsome power of this internet forum to identify and to proactively diagnose potential manufacturing issues? It is a tremendous marketing tool and customer satisfaction tool - almost a window into the collective conciousness of their buying public.

 

Sean has provided a tremendous service in collecting data on camera lock-ups as have many others in just bringing these issues to the table. If Leica tested cameras all day long in their factory they could not get a more realistic assesment of how they will operate in the field than the reports from users on this forum.

 

Does anyone have first hand knowledge that Leica is reviewing M8 performance data from this forum?

 

 

Hi Michael.

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Yes, Leica looks in on us to see what's going on.

 

Sometimes they like or are curious about what they see, and contact Forum members and make them consultants, as one member recently shared with me. Some members here have been Leica's helpers in this regard for a long, long time. Some members even have, or have had, their pictures on Leica's walls.

 

I'm not going to mention names because those people and Leica deserve their privacy and are entered into a business relationship that's confidential in this regard. And I don't know who all of them are anyway, so I'd inevitably leave somebody important out and hurt their feelings or something.

 

Sometimes Leica looks in and doesn't like what it sees here...so we've been down that road before, too.

 

And it's not just Leica Camera AG or the USA or UK offices that look at the chit-chat here. Local dealers do and even labs I've used have remarked about seeing my photos or posts here. I know Andy's had a similar experience from Milton Keynes (?) when he had a service issue once.

 

So, yes indeed, they look and listen..."the walls have ears" as they say.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[rsolomon]

As others have said : Leica is looking - seeing - watching. BUT are they listening and doing based on the forum. I doubt they are, they would have been long out of business by now with some ofthe crazy ideas i have seen.

 

However, It's a shame they don't share the future "roadmap" a bit more...i for one am tired of waiting on whats next in the R world.Let's face it we can't even get a date on a firmware release - or if it will even come ....and what will be in it ?? - firmware update information SHOULD be made more public.

 

 

Frankly, this is a company run by people who have decided not to communicate with their customers....

 

You know the truth of the matter is that i am still wating for my 2007 calendar, promised and ordered by my dealer at thianksgiving time (2006)....

[Bob Ross]

 

Frankly, this is a company run by people who have decided not to communicate with their customers....

 

....

Could you give us the names of other companies that reveal the nature of future model development?

If you look back at how problems were handled by the big Asian companies, you'll find that Leica was more "up-front" in acknowledging that there was a problem and directly to the customer, too.

We are, of course, coming up on the season of company communications, where they leak tid-bits to their customers to build up the drama of PMA 2007...

Bob

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Like Allan says the walls have ears and is very true and also leica employees do also post here when they feel the need to add to a conversation and yes some of us are directly contacted by Leica to share thoughts and idea's. Which is awesome that they do becuase when the issues arise they get to hear it and start working on it.

[rosuna]

This just isn't true, and you clearly don't own an M8.

 

The M8

• is the only high end digital rangefinder (sorry Epson)
  
• has the highest colour depth of any small camera, except the DMR
  
• has the widest exposure latitude I've seen, especially in highlights, which are so crucial for great digital capture

To me those are pretty great advantages, all apart from the lenses.

 

I agree Jamie. The main problem was the inexistence of a complete offer of digital products. Leica has worked out this. The M8 and the 4/3 cameras have completed the product line. The only remaining hole is in the R line, just because the DMR has been discontinued.

[jrc]

I would characterize Leica's customer efforts as sincere, but inept. From my personal experiences with Nikon...well, I've never had a personal experience with Nikon, despite owning Nikons for 30 years, because, like Canon, they are almost completely opaque. Never complain, never comment, never acknowledge... or almost never.

 

To get back to Leica. Leica, your costumer base includes a lot of very smart people, with excellent built-in bullshit detectors. So, why not try a policy of honesty, which often works, and is simple, because you don't have to keep track of lies?

 

Herre is a model press release for you:

 

Dear Leica customers,

 

You may have noticed delays in coding of the lenses you have sent to Leica repair facilities in Germany and the USA. These delays have been caused by an unexpectedly large demand for the service. Our turn-around time is now four weeks, which will improve as the demand declines.

 

If we believed that this demand would remain at current levels, we would hire additional workers to exchange the mounting rings. However, it is not possible that demand will remain at this level, and we believe that it would be unfair to hire additional workers, only to have to release them after two or three months of work. Because of German labor laws involving worker compensation, that would also be extremely expensive, and would drive up costs of our products.

 

The demand for the coding service should, according to our best projections, have declined to more-normal levels by April, and there-after, the turn-around time for coding services will be substantially reduced. At that time, we would hope to have the lenses in-shop for no more than three days.

 

Sincerely,

 

Leica

 

 

The only problem with this release, of course, is that a number of customers would probably have heart attacks caused by being treated as adults. But those who didn't have heart attacks, aside from a few Canon trolls, would think it over, find the answer reasonable, and stop bitching about the turn-around time for coding.

 

JC

[rsolomon]

There are so many companies that share their roadmap i can't list them all, here are a few

Bob: here you go. many customer have webcasts as well to inform investors and customer on direction.... from my perspective this is common.

 

big cap:

IBM

CA

HP

 

small Cap:

Hyperion

Apeture

Allen systems group

 

private:

information builders

 

Guy: with all due respect what tangable information on future direction have they shared ?

 

They don't reach out to the "customer", they just dont...

 

Leica may reach out to a select few - but unless the bulk of their revenue come from thoose they are reaching out to this does not help leica the company.

 

from an american business perspective leica is weak in marketing....they just are ...this is how they decided to run their company....

 

 

they still make great lenses....no one can really argue that - and in my opinon that is what leica is about - not cameras, not firmware, not accessories..... just lenses (which is enough to keep me coming back)

 

rich

[Riley]

what has not been pointed out is, the other manufacturers representatives that come here. Be sure that they do, I know I would....

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Richard your asking a company to say on Dec 12th 2008 there will be a new R10 with yada yada yada . Now i would like toknow also but there are major problems saying that for them . First what happens if the you know what hits the fan and they can't deliver on time , Second if the sensor company says we changed our mind , not selling that sensor to you. The firmware company decieds to be late, the LCD company can't make the size. Catching what i am saying . Than you also show your hand to Canon and Nikon and they make something different to beat you at press time. I think you know what i am saying but yes some sort of future road map would be nice but than again really can they really say, were building a new body and really that would be about it without comprimising themselves.

 

Let's say they did give a road map like the R10 and what they hope to be onboard, what if Fuji comes out with a sensor to beat the band and they decide let's buy there sensor but we have to make a design decision, now we need to revamp the body to work that sensor in. See were I am going , no matter what they say it could change in mid course. Now I don't like bring up C and N but i have never seen a road map from them. But i will bet you right now 100 dollars exactly 2 weeks before PMA Canon will announce what they are bringing out, than Nikon maybe before that and Canon always trumps Nikon been going on for years.

 

 

I know just like you and everyone including myself we want to know, yes we need to make plans and business decisions where to put our capital and if I hold out to long I will lose my shirt on selling it and all that. Yes been there many times more than I would want to myself. There really is no answer I am afraid , the word is there workingon it and that is all we can go by. Not a lot I agree.

[Bob Ross]

There are so many companies that share their roadmap i can't list them all, here are a few

Bob: here you go. many customer have webcasts as well to inform investors and customer on direction.... from my perspective this is common.

 

from an american business perspective leica is weak in marketing....they just are ...this is how they decided to run their company....

 

 

they still make great lenses....no one can really argue that - and in my opinon that is what leica is about - not cameras, not firmware, not accessories..... just lenses (which is enough to keep me coming back)

 

rich

Hi Rich,

I was thinking more within the market segment,ie, Digital Cameras or more specifically Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji and Sigma, the DSLR makers. Oly has a lens road map that they sometimes keep to, but wont say much about the E-3, E-410 or E-510 until market time. Nikon and Fuji haven't said much about FF or Canon about 22MPs.

As we get more global in business perspectives, the cultural impact of various strategies will start to be taken into consideration, before action is taken or products are launched.

The name Leica does mean lenses and like you and many others it is what keeps me a customer.

Bob

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Hallo,

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[Woody Campbell]

This just isn't true, and you clearly don't own an M8.

 

The M8

• is the only high end digital rangefinder (sorry Epson)
  
• has the highest colour depth of any small camera, except the DMR
  
• has the widest exposure latitude I've seen, especially in highlights, which are so crucial for great digital capture

To me those are pretty great advantages, all apart from the lenses.

 

I'd add to Jamie's list "compact size". I'm off to the Grenadines tomorrow to shoot an installment on a project that has been ongoing for over e year. I made my last trip with a 1DsII kit and a 5D backup - I don't have to detail what this means. This trip my entire M8 kit fits into a LowePro Omni Traveller (which is smaller than a typical laptop case) - complete with backup body, battery brick - the works.