dannirr Posted February 11, 2007 Share #1  Posted February 11, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I used the WATE today with the 486 filter. There are serious issues, as this lens is not identified by the M8 (absurd).  The cyan vignetting is terrible. See: WATE Test - a photoset on Flickr  I think this lens will need to be used in mono work only at this point in time, unless Leica comes up with a "fix"  Danni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Hi dannirr, Take a look here WATE / 486 issues pt2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted February 11, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted February 11, 2007 I agree the cyan is pretty bad. Were these taken at 16mm and did you have lens detection enabled? We know that the camera cannot tell which focal length is selected but even before 1.10, enabling lens detection reduces the cyan on other lenses. Â We're expecting 1.10 to allow you to specify that IR filters are being used, what we don't know is how the WATE will be supported. I cannot see any other way than a manual selection of the selected focal length and I've previously suggested that an extra entry to the SET menu could be added when this lens is mounted to allow quick selection of the focal length. Â As for the filter, I do not yet have a filter adapter but I have ordered two, one for "official use", the second to play around with. If you look at the lens hood, you can see that a 49mm filter disc could be glued into the back (threaded) part but it then has to be mounted a little forward to clear the protruding lens element. I want to see whether the lens hood could be glued to the front of the filter adapter and the excess diameter of the filter adapter cut away. Also, of course, I want to see if this combination will cause vignetting on the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joern Posted February 11, 2007 Share #3  Posted February 11, 2007 Danni,  My WATE isn´t recognized, too. First thought was it will be with the new firmware. I have heard that they are already testing beta 1.1.3 !  But how will they recognize the different angles with only one code ? And how is it done with the coded TE?  BTW, your picts looking good even with some cyan vignetting :-)  jørn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted February 11, 2007 Share #4  Posted February 11, 2007 I used the WATE today with the 486 filter. There are serious issues, as this lens is not identified by the M8 (absurd).  The cyan vignetting is terrible. See: WATE Test - a photoset on Flickr  I think this lens will need to be used in mono work only at this point in time, unless Leica comes up with a "fix"  Danni  Yup, its an important issue and I believe that Leica is quite aware of that. Thanks for the examples. Just a note that it's actually red that gets vignetted, leaving a drift to cyan in its wake.  Cheers,  Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 11, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted February 11, 2007 Joern, in the original TE, they use the frame selector lever to detect the selected focal length because that lens selects one of the three positions for each of its focal lengths. When you select 28 on the lens, you see the 28mm frame selected in the viewfinder and the camera uses the combination of the zebra code and the position of the frame selector lever to figure out that the lens is a old Tri-Elmar set to 28mm and it puts 28mm in the info window. Â There's no such complexity with the WATE. There's just a single code and the lens does not select a different frame as you change from 16-18-21, the lens just selects the 21/28/90 frame position which IMHO is the best choice. The camera doesn't know the selected focal length and there's nothing put in the info window. When it comes to correcting for the cyan, Leica will either have to do some sort of compromise - under corrected at 16mm, over corrected at 21mm or else rely on the user telling the camera what the selected focal length is. Â The original TE underwent a mechanical re-design in quite short order even though the optical cell did not change and depending on how effective their solution is - if there is one - we may well see a second generation WATE. First choice for me would be to have a sliding code underneath a transparent window in the bayonet ring so that a different code is presented to the camera at each of the three selected focal lengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joern Posted February 11, 2007 Share #6  Posted February 11, 2007 Mark,  Many thanks for the detailed info.  Your idea of the "sliding code" is very clever - if so they have to call it "NSC" ;-)  What i would like to see is a setup under the SET menu where you can manually select the type of lens, too.  jørn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannirr Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share #7 Â Posted February 11, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) All these pictures were at 16 mm, lens detection enabled. Â Sean - yes, red vigneting - thanks for that clarification. Â Danni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted February 11, 2007 Share #8  Posted February 11, 2007 All these pictures were at 16 mm, lens detection enabled. Sean - yes, red vigneting - thanks for that clarification.  Danni  What focal lenth does it show in the exif when a the lens detection is enabled?  Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osera Posted February 11, 2007 Share #9  Posted February 11, 2007 What focal lenth does it show in the exif when a the lens detection is enabled? Robert  Rob-  Sorry to step in here, but with mine, the focal length field is just blank when lens detection is enabled.  However, I think that the camera is recognizing the presence of the coded lens even though this field is blank. To my eye, there is some luminousity vignetting correction applied when lens detection is enabled, as compared to when it is disabled. I think I have some images demonstrating that somewhere here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osera Posted February 11, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted February 11, 2007 Here is a quick test of lens detection enabled vs disabled with the WATE. Â First is the full image at 16mm with detection enabled. When I reduced the full image for web display, the vignetting was hard to see, so I made crops of the upper left quadrant, which shows it better, IMO. Â Second image is a crop of the first, lens detection enabled. Â Third image is crop of another full image (not shown) taken about 1 minute later, with lens detection disabled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted February 11, 2007 Share #11  Posted February 11, 2007 Danni,  ...I have heard that they are already testing beta 1.1.3 !jørn  How mmuch confidence do you have in this rumor? I have never seen anyone beta test so far beyond where they have released. In other words, normally if 1.10 had been released they might be beta testing 1.11 and if 1.12 had been released they would be beta testing the next release, i.e. 1.13. However, it would be highly unusual to be beta testing four released beyond your released version. Just curious how releiable your source is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 11, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted February 11, 2007 Allen, I think looking for cyan in a blue sky is quite tough - it would be more obvious if you took a picture of a white surface. Also, Danni's pictures showed the effect of the IR filter which will make the cyan worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osera Posted February 11, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted February 11, 2007 I agree re: a cyan search. Actually, those shots were taken without a filter- I was only looking to see luminousity vignetting, and whether the camera was applying correction with lens detection enabled, even though the exif field remains blank. Sorry in advance if I'm not understanding you correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englander Posted February 11, 2007 Share #14 Â Posted February 11, 2007 The metadata does not display that the WATE is recognized but the camera is correcting for vignetting. The terrible cyan consequences of the red vignetting is apparent with the 24 and even with the 35 when a 486 is used; and probably with all the wide lenses, but I don't have enough to confirm that. Without the 486, all three of these lenses present a better, more even illumination when lens-detection is "on" than when it is off. At this point I think Photoshop anti-cyan manipulation is required for every image made with the 486 and a wide-ish lens, especially if there is any even illumination on a background. Â Joe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joern Posted February 11, 2007 Share #15  Posted February 11, 2007 How mmuch confidence do you have in this rumor? I have never seen anyone beta test so far beyond where they have released. In other words, normally if 1.10 had been released they might be beta testing 1.11 and if 1.12 had been released they would be beta testing the next release, i.e. 1.13. However, it would be highly unusual to be beta testing four released beyond your released version. Just curious how releiable your source is.  John, Much confiedence. Really. And it seems unusual. But didn´t Leitz make many things unusual? For me it could make sense in the case that they have more than one team working on different issues/solutions to save time . And time is what they don´t have...  But i could understand that you have doubts. No problem. Time will tell.  jørn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atufte Posted February 11, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted February 11, 2007 What i find very strange is, that the $3,895 WATE lens show much stronger signs of the optical "color vignetting problem" (cyan/magenta) than the cheap ($349) but great CV 15mm lens used with 486 filter.... Â See link... Â http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/14123-ir-cut-filter-15-voigtlander.html?highlight=CV+15 Â Scary stuff, if you ask me....and why the extremly bulky and in my eyes "unusable" filter solution for the WATE lens, i will NOT want look like a clown using a $3,895 lens with an umbrella in front of the lens, or clients asking me why i have a sattelite GPS reciver in front of my lens.. :-) Â I tried the WATE lens with just holding the filter in front of the lens, and because the front lens element does not go that far out it should be easy to make a reversed filter extension ring and a "normal size" filter could be used, and possibly also a solution for a sunshade... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted February 11, 2007 Share #17 Â Posted February 11, 2007 What i find very strange is, that the $3,895 WATE lens show much stronger signs of the optical "color vignetting problem" (cyan/magenta) than the cheap ($349) but great CV 15mm lens used with 486 filter.... Â It may seem strange but difference is likely due, in part, to the fact that the WA TE shows higher contrast and color saturation than the CV 15. The more contrast and color saturation a lens shows, the stronger the appearance of cyan drift, as I've discussed in some of the lens reviews. So, its not a fault of the lens, per se, just a rendering difference that affects red vignetting/cyan drift. Â Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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