Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture, or others?

[ade909]

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Dear All,

 

I'm looking for advice on processing software. I went back to film last year, to slow down, to improve my composition and exposure, and to concentrate on making the picture in the camera rather than in Photoshop, which was a bad habit I'd started to get into when using digital.

 

I've thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but I've found it difficult to share photographs with friends and colleagues. Everyone expects pictures to be posted on the web now, so after an experiment with scanning (which I find is too time consuming) and having films scanned at the lab (a cost vs. resolution dilemma!) I've decided to put my LC1 back into my camera bag, at least for social occasions. I also have an option coming up on an M8.

 

Unfortunately, I am now 12 months out of the loop with processing software, so was hoping to get some pointers as to what's available and what's good. Previously I used Elements 3 on a PC, with a work-around for the lack of curves control and the Convert to B&WPro plug-in for B&W conversions. It was all right, but a bit fragmented, and it didn't store images very well. I'd like to use something better. Also, I now have a Macbook Pro, and with the zeal of a true convert, I'm not going back to a PC if I can avoid it!

 

I'm looking for a "less is more" package - no bells and whistles I won't use, just the closest thing there is to an electronic darkroom. Batch processing for RAW images would be great. Lightroom is getting a lot of press, but Capture 1 seems to be the M8 RAW converter of preference. What do you prefer and why?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

all the best

 

Adrian

[LJL]

Adrian,

Welcome back to the electronic side.

 

You will most likely get a lot of thoughts and suggestions about what is best for what. Based on what you have described (MacBook Pro, mostly RAW batch conversions, not too many bells, etc.), I think it would be worth your time to take a look at RAW Developer. It is a Mac only app, but it does some realy nice work on the M8 DNG files. It pretty much has almost everything you would need for the processing steps, with lots of control, plus a growing number of profiles. It does not have some of the "finishing tools" like those found in Photoshop and PS Elements. Things like a spot remover/clone tool, or layers for doing masks and stuff. If you do not need them or use them much, you might be able to get by with using your exisiting apps on the converted files.

 

The M8 comes packaged with Phase One C1LE as its RAW conversion tool. Still a great app, and there are a lot of users here to offer suggestions, profiles, and other tips.

 

Adobe Lightroom will be released later this month as a full-fledged app. The RAW conversions on the beta versions have been good, but not to everyone's tastes. Same is trur for Adobe Photoshop CS2. However, some folks really prefer the conversions, and CS2 does have everything else you would need for photo retouching. There is a CS3 beta being used by many now, and it is rendering farily nice conversions.

 

Apple's Aperture applicaiton has tremendous promise and utility, and the conversions on some other files (e.g. Canon EOS 1DsMkII) are quite good, and among the best I have seen. However, presently, Apple does not have support for the Leica DNG files from the M8 or the DMR. (Not sure about some of the others.) Hopefully, that will be updated soon. Personally, I love the workflow in Aperture, and the conversions, but really miss being able to handle my M8 files right now without prior conversions from something else before import.

 

The good news is that RAW Developer, Aperture, Lightroom and PS CS3 all have free test versions or betas to download and experiment with for a while. (CS3 does require having a valid registration of CS2, so you might want to check what you have.)

 

My personal perspective is that RAW conversion apps are a bit like films....select the one that provides the "look" you prefer. I happen to use all of them for different things. There are even some others out there too (Bibble comes to mind), that may do the job for you.

 

Sorry to not provide a definitive answer, but there will be a lot of opinions offered here. Good luck and enjoy the digital journey.

 

LJ

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[ChrisC]

I'm looking for a "less is more" package - no bells and whistles I won't use, just the closest thing there is to an electronic darkroom.

 

Adrian - The closest thing to a digital 'darkroom' is Photoshop, it is the industry standard software that absolutely fulfils the latter part of the above quote, and in no way satisfies the first part. Whilst I have no idea what you would end up using or not using, you need to be aware that Photoshop in it's current release is a fully professional tool when used for photography post production [which is why we use it], and has a steep learning curve for the unwary. To do good work with photoshop, that learning curve is just about to get a little steeper when CS3 is released.

 

I have no idea whether there can be an application which satisfies the above quote, maybe someone with different experience to me can find an answer. My advice would be to learn good post production in Photoshop and enjoy discovering for yourself whether you are working with bells and whistles, or adaptable, cleverly crafted essential tools. You may feel however that there is more than a touch of contemporary Robber Barons afoot when you realise the full price of CS2 [or 3].

 

This is not the answer you looked for. Good digital 'darkroom' work is not easy, and why should it be? I spent years doing 'wet' darkroom printing, and doing that well was highly skilled too. Good luck.

 

..................Chris

[carstenw]

I find Lightroom to be easy to use and powerful at the same time. It doesn't really get in your way. C1 is better at the moment, but hang in there until Lightroom 1.0 reviews start hitting the magazines. I bet it will be great, and it is a lot cheaper.

[Guest WPalank]

Adrian,

I'm loving the Light Room Beta 9and already have an order in for 1.0). Download the free software and take it for a spin as it should be useable til the end of Feb.

I placed the C1 Lite on my computer, tried it once and haven't gone back. Completely non-intuitive. It's like it was written by software engineers and mathematicians that have never processed a photo digitally or otherwise.

The great thing about Light Room is that it has been a Public Beta for over a year, it is geared towards Photographers ONLY and Adobe has been listening to us.

[Guest stnami]

Adrian most of the RAW and post proccessing applications give you a months grace to try out, try as many as you can, I ended up with the usual suspect CS3,

for some colour work(soft)- Raw Developer,has the option of LAB colour curves

Lightzone is good for some B&W local burn and dodge

Lightroom is probably about the best application going due to its integration of other applications

Don't discount Silkypix. Bibble etc as well a the Alien Skin stuff

[RG Beaulieu]

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Adrian:

 

I have been using Photoshop and CS2 for a number of years. I recently tried the Lightroom (beta) download and found it to be a very reliable and worthwhile program. I highly recommend it. Take a look at the Lunminous Landscape website they have a lot of information on Lightroom including a good toutorial.

I recently downloaded Adobe CS3 (beta) which includes a number of Lightroom features that are of value to photographers.

 

Dick B.

[phlogiston1]

I agree with what has been written above. Lightroom is excellent and it will get better. It is easy to use and has powerful tools,but does not have a red eye correction tool which can be very handy with some jobs. This may come. Aperture has this feature as well as a lot of powerful tools and is certainly worth a look. Photoshop CS3 is wonderful and a big step up from the previous version especially the Bridge which is where I do most of my processing. The new Bridge has many of the features that Lightroom has including a good loupe and the recovery tool. Now does Stacks too!!! whats more the Raw converter/Developer now handles Jpeg and other file formats. PSCS3 is a big and powerful app. and you must be aware that it will take a long time to get the best out of it, so perhaps the Lightroom is the best place to start and then you can move on up to PSCS3.

[atanabe]

I am also faced with a similar problem, C1 LE processes the DNG files thanks to Jamie's profile, Lightroom does not process the DNG as well, Aperture does not recognize the DNG. I already own Aperture and have my files cataloged in there. Now I get the M8 and I have to start over again choosing a processor.

 

Life was easier when I had to choose between the green or yellow box.

[Guest stnami]

http://pictureflow.fileburst.com/_Tutorials/Photoshop_LR/01/index.html

[ade909]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies and advice. In particular, thanks to LJ and Imants for directing me to the trial downloads and betas. Proof, if it was needed, of how far behind I am - I was still thinking I'd have to go and buy a cd in a box.... I have some downloading to do!

 

all the best

 

Adrian

[ptomsu]

Adrian,

Welcome back to the electronic side.

 

You will most likely get a lot of thoughts and suggestions about what is best for what. Based on what you have described (MacBook Pro, mostly RAW batch conversions, not too many bells, etc.), I think it would be worth your time to take a look at RAW Developer. It is a Mac only app, but it does some realy nice work on the M8 DNG files. It pretty much has almost everything you would need for the processing steps, with lots of control, plus a growing number of profiles. It does not have some of the "finishing tools" like those found in Photoshop and PS Elements. Things like a spot remover/clone tool, or layers for doing masks and stuff. If you do not need them or use them much, you might be able to get by with using your exisiting apps on the converted files.

 

The M8 comes packaged with Phase One C1LE as its RAW conversion tool. Still a great app, and there are a lot of users here to offer suggestions, profiles, and other tips.

 

Adobe Lightroom will be released later this month as a full-fledged app. The RAW conversions on the beta versions have been good, but not to everyone's tastes. Same is trur for Adobe Photoshop CS2. However, some folks really prefer the conversions, and CS2 does have everything else you would need for photo retouching. There is a CS3 beta being used by many now, and it is rendering farily nice conversions.

 

Apple's Aperture applicaiton has tremendous promise and utility, and the conversions on some other files (e.g. Canon EOS 1DsMkII) are quite good, and among the best I have seen. However, presently, Apple does not have support for the Leica DNG files from the M8 or the DMR. (Not sure about some of the others.) Hopefully, that will be updated soon. Personally, I love the workflow in Aperture, and the conversions, but really miss being able to handle my M8 files right now without prior conversions from something else before import.

 

The good news is that RAW Developer, Aperture, Lightroom and PS CS3 all have free test versions or betas to download and experiment with for a while. (CS3 does require having a valid registration of CS2, so you might want to check what you have.)

 

My personal perspective is that RAW conversion apps are a bit like films....select the one that provides the "look" you prefer. I happen to use all of them for different things. There are even some others out there too (Bibble comes to mind), that may do the job for you.

 

Sorry to not provide a definitive answer, but there will be a lot of opinions offered here. Good luck and enjoy the digital journey.

 

LJ

 

I actually like your analogy of RAW converters and films - exactly this is how I feel.

 

I love LR, because of its great workflow and abilities, but it has some flaws in RAW conversion, especially for DNG, which is much better in C1.

 

So definitive answer here - there is still no single best solution and you have to be flexible if you want to get best results.

 

Peter