DMR discontinued?

[gtmerideth]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On another forum the case made for the demise of the DMR is that the Imacon/Hasselblad

relationship prevents more backs from further production. Leica had a limited number of

DMR units in stock and when they expired that was it. Further, this puts Leica in a big

hole in that the next R series digital is about 20 months from finding it's way to the marketplace. A survey was conducted on the Leica list for features for a new R just after the Colone show. The timing of the survey indicates the position of the new R. Those with a close relationship to Leica are under a NDA about the new R but can state that the design will be a revolutionary concept for the marketplace. Speculation includes a modular system and a new lens focusing system with the inclusion of existing R glass.

 

If any of this holds water, Leica better get something on the table soon. It won't be hardware but could be exposure of the new concept piece by piece. There was an interesting patent regarding a lens system concept recently in work and atributed to an

S. K. Lee. I think exciting times are ahead.

g.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Riley]

As for the square or 4:3 format bigger than full frame, it really isn't feasible with the current Leica-R system.

 

The image circle of the R-lenses (as most 35mm lenses besides PC lenses) is designed to have a 43mm diameter (diagonal of full format 24x36). Hence the maximum square format you could fit into this image circle is about 30.5 x 30.5.

 

Anyway anything similar or bigger than the current DMR sensor that would accepts R-lenses will be fine for me.

 

just as easy to make a 43.3mm diagonal with 4x3, from the root of the product

making a sensor 32.48 x 24.36

or conversely

a 36mm x 24.36mm covers both 4x3 and 3x2 frame at maximum image circle diameter of 43.3mm

[sdai]

Simon

the resulting image is way different, just tell me Im seeing things

a 300mm FF comparative view is from a 150mm lens

so do 300mm FF lenses weigh the same as 150mm now ?

 

Rob, you're right in terms of covering the same FOV but ... the 150 still can't see as far as the 300, I've owned and currently own most Canon's long teles ... 300, 400, 500 you name it ... think it this way, you can crop the FOV of a 50mm standard lens with a cropping factor of 4x ok? will the resulting image hold the same resolution as seen from a 200mm focal length lens which really sees that far? no way.

[Riley]

now Simon to achieve equiv 300mm on the different sensors

it takes less spectacular technology to make a good 150 than a 300 for the same F stop

 

IF you were talking the limits of tele lenses I would begin to agree, but 300mm is hardly that

the way you are looking at it is right IF you are using 35mm FF lenses

but 4/3 isnt that is it, they dont crop pieces out of the lenses, they use all the lens front glass

 

and you could say the same for 4/3 this way

The F-stop is calculated by dividing the focal length of the lens by the diameter of the iris diaphragm and is therefore near the same diameter

the resulting lens of the same weight is considerably faster at the same focal length

 

or for wider for the same F stop

the lens is considerably narrower and therefore easier to build without distortion

[macusque]

...you can crop the FOV of a 50mm standard lens with a cropping factor of 4x ok? will the resulting image hold the same resolution as seen from a 200mm focal length lens which really sees that far? no way.

Couldn't agree more.

 

We always hear about how a cropped sensor uses the "sweet spot" of a lens, but something that it's very seldom realized is that with a cropped sensor you always loose lens resolution, just because lens resolution isn't infinite.

 

A lens capable to resolve 100 lpmm gives 3600 lines on a 36mm wide sensor.

The same lens on a cropped 18mm sensor won't give more than 1800 lines.

 

You can design lenses with higher resolution to compensate but I doubt they can improve the existing R-lineup to that point.

 

Not to mention the better DOF control you have with a bigger sensor.

 

IMO the 35mm format, being it 24x36 (3:2), 30.5x30.5 (square) or 34.8x26.1 (4:3), is still the best compromise between gear's dimensions/weights and performance.

 

Do you want something really smaller ? Get an "advanced" point&shoot.

Do you need better quality ? Get a MF.

 

I can live with a 1.3x cropping factor but 2x is too much of a stretch IMO.

[Riley]

Marco, lenses now do considerably better than 100 lpmm dont they

in fact better than double that is not uncommon

 

just as a for instance , those cheap and nasty Raynox converters make 230 lpmm

 

that shifts the resolution limits to the sensor and the AA filter

[timbedsted1234]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Mark i never ran a roll of film through it , nor do many DMR users i know. The idea was nice but in practice, never for me.

 

Honestly i am not surprised by this move at all,

 

Funny, no one is surprised yet no one saw this coming, until the DMR was discontiued I didn't hear anyone mention it as a shirt lived stop gap solution, no it was expensive but would have along production run at least until 2008!!!

 

Frankly I feel cheated

 

/T

[timbedsted1234]

i think one thing we should look at and I have yet to do it is look what CCD from Kodak is being made today that they can adapt into it. .

 

Guy,

 

check out this new 16mp sensor!

 

KODAK Image Sensor Solutions - New 16 Megapixel KAI-16000 Interline CCD Sensor Offers Unsurpassed Image Quality and High Speed

[marknorton]

Guy,

 

check out this new 16mp sensor!

 

KODAK Image Sensor Solutions - New 16 Megapixel KAI-16000 Interline CCD Sensor Offers Unsurpassed Image Quality and High Speed

 

Except this isn't the kind of sensor which would be used in a replacement R....

[albertknappmd]

I just spoke to the people at Leica NJ. They confirmed that the DMR production line is finished and that no more will be made. They also confirmed that they are working on the update and that it should be available "soon". HOWEVER,WHEN I ASKED ABOUT THE R10, they stated that they have no knowledge of one........... Draw your own inferences, friends.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Guy,

 

check out this new 16mp sensor!

 

KODAK Image Sensor Solutions - New 16 Megapixel KAI-16000 Interline CCD Sensor Offers Unsurpassed Image Quality and High Speed

 

 

Thanks Tim , sort of what i am thinking is maybe just grab one that is currently in production and build it around that. certainly going to be interesting on what they do for sure.

 

Tim not sure we should feel cheating . Lifespan on digital is pretty short anyway and there is still going to be support for it just no new ones made but yes it was expensive, been there for sure but it's not considered a dinosaur either . it still and awlays produce great files and hopefully the new firmware will make it much better in the performance area.

 

Well at least we can have good conversation on what might be next.

[ptomsu]

Thanks Tim , sort of what i am thinking is maybe just grab one that is currently in production and build it around that. certainly going to be interesting on what they do for sure.

 

Tim not sure we should feel cheating . Lifespan on digital is pretty short anyway and there is still going to be support for it just no new ones made but yes it was expensive, been there for sure but it's not considered a dinosaur either . it still and awlays produce great files and hopefully the new firmware will make it much better in the performance area.

 

Well at least we can have good conversation on what might be next.

 

This is NOT a sensor for mobile cameras like a possible R10, but for aerial cameras, reproduction etc.

 

Somehow I start thinking that C is the only one able to make real achievable FF sensors for DSLRs in these days, not even Kodak seems to be near. And sure enough at PMA C will present a successor to their 1DsMarkxyz which should have around 22MP. This is then already their 2nd incarnation, so they should be slowly getting quite far away from the rest of the pack.

 

Sorry, but without Leica teaming up with C I do no longer believe in a great future of Leica R (and M as well).

 

Peter

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Peter L can't buy C sensors so they have to go elsewhere like they have done already. They have gone Kodak but there is also Dalsa out there and Fuji's Fovearan ( spelled wrong) sensor technology also. We have to remember C is also CMOS not CCD. We just need to see what is out there, don't forget Kodak makes Phase One backs and Dalsa makes Aptus backs , so bigger sensors are certainly out there for the picking , price maybe a issue but big sensors are there

[rosuna]

The KAI-16000 is an interline CCD sensor. The light sensitive area in each pixel is smaller than that of full frame transfer CCD sensors.

The DMR and M8 use full frame transfer sensors. Kodak call them "KAF" sensors.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks Ruben, I'm sure there are others that will work in this scenerio, I'm not the engineering type to figure that out but the idea on it is pretty interesting on what would work for a oversize sensor. Maybe something to explore

[Dikdik]

Hi all,

Check this out

Rob Galbraith DPI: Leica Digital-Modul-R discontinued; new R digital planned?

 

Is this legit?

 

Robbe Gibson

 

Hello Rob;

I was last week (3rd.Feb.) at my Leica Dealer in Muenster/Germany. They said Leica will come within the next time (whatever this might be) with a new pure digital R model, probably the R 10. The current DMR will then end in production. But there are a plenty of DMR's at Leica dealers around the world. So, I think we can buy the DMR's a couple of years.

Nevertheless, some of the Leica products stay for years within the dealers shops. In some german shops you can still buy brand new R8 bodies.

I think we have time enough; and then lets have the new R10!

Best regards from Germany

dikdik

[macusque]

Marco, lenses now do considerably better than 100 lpmm dont they

in fact better than double that is not uncommon

 

just as a for instance , those cheap and nasty Raynox converters make 230 lpmm

 

that shifts the resolution limits to the sensor and the AA filter

Rob,

 

I picked 100 lpmm only as an example.

 

Canon 1DsmkII already shows the resolution limit of many lenses, indeed we could argue that they need to design better lens for their upcoming > 20 Mp 1DsIII, otherwise all those pixels won't give more resolving power... been there and done that with their 1Ds and wide lenses.

 

Leica is in a much better position regarding lenses and they should take advantage of their amazing R-lineup to even compete with MF.

 

There's plenty of options in the cropped-sensor market with autofocus, image-stabilization, sensor self-cleaning, etc... why should I choose a Leica ?

 

Leica have the best lenses on the planet, they only need to make 'em shine, with an adequate sensor's size (= at least the same size of that of the DMR).

[zanydave]

Makes me feel kinda special, being a DMR owner

 

Dave

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[graeme_clarke]

They may be sold out, but I do hope that we DMR owners have not nor will be sold down the river.

 

Graeme

[Riley]

Rob,

 

I picked 100 lpmm only as an example.

 

Canon 1DsmkII already shows the resolution limit of many lenses, indeed we could argue that they need to design better lens for their upcoming > 20 Mp 1DsIII, otherwise all those pixels won't give more resolving power... been there and done that with their 1Ds and wide lenses.

 

Leica is in a much better position regarding lenses and they should take advantage of their amazing R-lineup to even compete with MF.

 

There's plenty of options in the cropped-sensor market with autofocus, image-stabilization, sensor self-cleaning, etc... why should I choose a Leica ?

 

Leica have the best lenses on the planet, they only need to make 'em shine, with an adequate sensor's size (= at least the same size of that of the DMR).

 

22Mp on film lenses, that should be interesting

not all that sure there would be a benefit, except to Canon ofcourse