clive Posted February 7, 2007 Share #1 Posted February 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I purchased the M8 a week ago and have since noticed that after using the menu or set buttons and then switching the camera off I see lots of thin black horizontal lines running across the LCD monitor which disappear after about thirty seconds. Is this a known issue? The M8 and the cold I took the M8 out the other day and it died after about twenty minutes—the temperature was about -5c. At the time it didn’t even occur to me that the problem may have been with the battery, I thought it was a problem with the SD card I am using (Lexar Pro 133x). But the same thing has happened again outside twice since in about the same temp . The LED that indicates picture taking mode/recording data to the card was flashing continuously and did so until I took the battery out and replaced it again—which seemed to help for a short while, before ‘locking up’ again. I thought this was to do with the memory card and not the battery, but it has not happened while I am using the camera inside—is that just a coincidence? B&H give you two weeks, so I guess I still have a few days left to find out if I need to return it, but it really irks me to send it back knowing I’ll have to wait maybe weeks for a replacement. So, I’m going to do one more test—charge up the battery fully tomorrow morning and then go outside to use the camera in about -10c to see how long it lasts. How long should I expect the battery to last at this temperature? I’m also wondering if the cold affects the data transfer to the card, causing it to ‘lock up’ or ‘crash’—any thoughts on this? Regards Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Hi clive, Take a look here M8 battery + other issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LJL Posted February 7, 2007 Share #2 Posted February 7, 2007 Clive, Sure sounds like the cold is zapping your battery quickly. You did not say if the camera was inside your coat or just out in the -5C cold all that time. This is not usually a problem I would contend where I live, but folks in colder climes should be able to get a better idea on battery cold resistance. My guess is that it might not be too good. It is a fairly small battery to start, so it might just get sapped faster in that kind of cold. (Colleagues of mine that shoot Canon 1-series cameras up north complain about how fast they go down in the cold, and the batteries in the Canon big cameras are huge compared to the tiny thing in the M8.) If you have two batteries, keep swapping them out, while you keep the spare in an inside and warm pocket. They will still probably only last 30-40% of what you might normally get from them if temps were closer to 20C. LJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 7, 2007 Share #3 Posted February 7, 2007 Clive how long does it take to charge these batteries. The cold like LJ said will really suck the juice out of a battery also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJL Posted February 7, 2007 Share #4 Posted February 7, 2007 Clive, Nobody has been able to really document this well yet, but many of the strange problems with the LCD, power switch, recording to card, etc., may be the result of marginal voltages from a battery that is nearly exhausted. The LiIon batteries tend to just quit when they are run down, and if that happens in the middle of some processes, I am thinking it would create some of these kinds of issues....just enough juice to do some of the work, but not enough to do all of it. On your other question about cold temps impact on writing to the SD card....should not matter that much, until things get well below the posted operating temps of the cards or camera. Then the problem may still come from the battery not being able to supply enough juice to get the task completed quickly. I could be wrong, but I do not think your camera is the problem, but the cold is killing the battery quickly. When you bring it in from the cold, it might be good to try to completely discharge the battery by leaving the camera on (disable the auto-off timer), before charging it up again. Maybe some "battery gurus" have some additional comments to add at this point.... LJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 7, 2007 Share #5 Posted February 7, 2007 LJ i think he should do the reset like you mentioned , it does seem to cure some ills with the battery. Clive there is a bug in the firmware that Leica is fixing in 1.10 and it has to do with the battery level indicator. It may read full but it in reality the battery may only be half. Germany suggest to leave the camera on ( disable auto off in th menu selection) and leave the camera on all night this resets the camera but also drains and conditions the battery . Than charge battery and see if it happens again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted February 7, 2007 Share #6 Posted February 7, 2007 I purchased the M8 a week ago and have since noticed that after using the menu or set buttons and then switching the camera off I see lots of thin black horizontal lines running across the LCD monitor which disappear after about thirty seconds. Is this a known issue? Hi Clive, please read here about the "stripes" http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/14674-stripes-display-when-turned-off.html? Nobody seems an answer yet but let's wait what firmware 1.10 will bring us. Michiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted February 7, 2007 Share #7 Posted February 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have always understood about 'conditioning' a battery, but have been led to believe that Li ion batteries don't need it like NiCads etc. Can anyone confirm this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted February 7, 2007 Share #8 Posted February 7, 2007 Erl, NiCads lose their memory after a while. Unless you drain them compeltely before recharhing it can happen rather quickly. NiMH and Lithium Ion cells are much better at staying sain. They do lose their minds too, but after a much longer time. They can take the charge, use a little, recharge cycle much better. All rechargeables need to go though a couple of charging cycles before they yield their full potential. This includes Lithium Ion cells. An M8 battery should be no different. Drain as low as possible before recharging. When not in use, they should be stored charged. My three batteries (1 Leica and 2 after-market) for the D2 are still going strong after almost three years of constant use. I've numbered them and use them in cycle, charging the drained one before putting it away. - C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted February 7, 2007 Thank you for all your replies--this forum is absolutely brilliant! I'm going to try discharging the battery fully before recharging it again, and then I'm going to do a few other tests before finally deciding if I need to return it. LJ, you asked if I had kept the camera under my coat: during my walk I kept it in a shoulder case, so it didn't have the benefit of body warmth. Guy: when I first got the camera and charged the battery, it took about two and a half hours. Each time I have used it since, even if only for a short while, I notice that it takes a really long time before the green light appears on the charger. Michiel, thanks for the link. I looked at the serial number and see that it is 31059xx, which seems to me like a later model, is this right? Thanks again for all your suggestions Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted February 7, 2007 Share #10 Posted February 7, 2007 From everything I have ever read on Li-ion batteries they state that doing a complete discharge is NOT good for them. In fact doing that can damage the battery. But yet Leica states in the manual to do this 2 or 3 times. Very conflicting info. I think the battery for the M8 is a little small and mine, all 3 of them, do not hold a charge or last as long as the ones for my Nikon D200, which in everyones eye is one of the worst batteries. Just the other day I was using my D200 and put it back in the bag with it still turned on. About 3 days later I used it again and the battery had not drained at all from what I remember it being. With the Leica if I leave it one for 1-2-3 hours, and not taking any shots with it, the battery will go down to 1 bar left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted February 7, 2007 Share #11 Posted February 7, 2007 I have always understood about 'conditioning' a battery, but have been led to believe that Li ion batteries don't need it like NiCads etc. Can anyone confirm this? It is not that you are conditioning the battery, but the process decribed by Guy is calibrating the battery indicator on the M8. The Li Ion cells have some intelligence to them and there must be bug in the current firmware that is causing a partially discharged battery to show as full. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 7, 2007 Share #12 Posted February 7, 2007 Correct Rob your actually doing two thing here reset the camera and conditioning the battery which needs to done anyway. The DMR it is also recommended to discharge 3 times Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted February 8, 2007 I just got off the phone talking to someone at Leica in N.J. and was told that the official operating temperature of the M8 is between 32f and 104f (0c and 40 c). He was snowed under and unable to be specific as to where in the Leica literatures this information can be found—can anyone verify this info and direct me to a source? Regards. Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 8, 2007 Share #14 Posted February 8, 2007 I suppose that it might get too cold for the viewing screen to operate, tho I haven't seen it yet. I've had the camera out in the current cold weather conditions in Boston. At -1F -- plus windchill -- I've had zero (couldn't resist) problems. BTW, if I leave the camera on overnight to drain the battery, it isn't drained yet by morning. Yes, I do have the power down disabled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 8, 2007 Share #15 Posted February 8, 2007 Bill, to really drain it faster, set the screen to stay on, take a picture and press Play. 0C sounds like not much. I have used it in less with good results, but not much less, just -5C or perhaps -10C a single time. I guess I will pick up some more batteries. I do keep it in my pocket or inside the jacket when not shooting, which I imagine helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted February 8, 2007 Bill Thanks for your thoughts. I have now found the source in the M8 user manual on page 136 where it clearly states that the operating temperature is 0c to 40c Perhaps some cards perform better than others at low temperatures. I had been using Lexar SD Pro 133x 1 and 2 GB cards. Those who have reported different low temperature performance have been using Sandisk Ultra II or some other brand, but none have been using Lexar--so it could be a card issue. I live in Amherst just west of you and must be getting similar weather yet our outdoor experience is dramatically different—what cards are you using? Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 8, 2007 Share #17 Posted February 8, 2007 Bill, to really drain it faster, set the screen to stay on, take a picture and press Play.QUOTE] Carsten, I thot of doing that, but chickened out. I have concerns about the life of the view screen. At least with laptops, we are led to expect a finite life and right now I have only one M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 8, 2007 Share #18 Posted February 8, 2007 Bill, take a picture with the lens cap on The important part is that the screen is on. Or are you not concerned with burn-in, but total life? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 8, 2007 Share #19 Posted February 8, 2007 Bill, take a picture with the lens cap on The important part is that the screen is on. Or are you not concerned with burn-in, but total life? I would have said life, but burn-in would suck. I'm waiting for Guy to get back with the verdict from the horse's mouth, then if the batteries need regular calibration we'll all have to figure out a procedure that doesn't harm the view screen or the Li-ion batteries. Remember how we used to be able to drop our M's (I have, at least), never need batteries (not an M7 user), never be noticed ("Hey! Is that the new M8?"), not have to buy so many razor blades? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigrmurray Posted February 9, 2007 Share #20 Posted February 9, 2007 Clive: I often leave my M8 and lenses out in my car (in an unheated garage). It's been in the low teens here at night the last few weeks (in Kansas City), and I just grabbed the M8 out of the car this morning and turned it on -- no problems, shot pictures fine (viewfinder a little fogged-up, though). That's much colder than the conditions you stated. Take Guy's advice and condition your batteries. After I did last month, have had no problems with batteries or faulty operation. Maybe I'm just lucky, but battery health for you camera is perhaps as important as your own health is for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.