Finally got a Visoflex for my M9; now, what...?

[elgenper]

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Well, after reading here and other places about the charms and quirks of a Visoflex, I´ve finally laid my eager hands on an almost-like-new III with both the 90 degree prism and a ´stovepipe´ (perfect for flowers close to the ground...). Works like a charm on the M9, even seems to focus correctly right out of the box, although I´ve yet to do any real precision tests.

 

But I don´t have the hardware to mount the lens head from my Tele Elmar 4/135; for that I also need the universal focusing mount (16464) and an adapter ring (16472), right?

 

I´ve got track on an older focusing mount, from the time they were called OTZFO, however, so my question now is: are these functionally identical to the 16464 in all important aspects (threads, length, helicoid extension & c), or are there any gotchas I should be aware of?

 

My TE 4/135 is the last model without a pull-out lens shade.

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[village idiot!]

can i tag on to your thread?

 

i want to get a visoflex, my local independent camera store has two visoflex II's in stock but i couldn't fit either on my M9. the visoflex itself fit but i couldn't get the viewfinder on, it the horizontal one (i guess that's what it's called). it wouldn't slide in over the top of the camera. am i doing something wrong or am i S.O.L. with the II and need the III?

[k-hawinkler]

Well, after reading here and other places about the charms and quirks of a Visoflex, I´ve finally laid my eager hands on an almost-like-new III with both the 90 degree prism and a ´stovepipe´ (perfect for flowers close to the ground...). Works like a charm on the M9, even seems to focus correctly right out of the box, although I´ve yet to do any real precision tests.

 

But I don´t have the hardware to mount the lens head from my Tele Elmar 4/135; for that I also need the universal focusing mount (16464) and an adapter ring (16472), right?

 

I´ve got track on an older focusing mount, from the time they were called OTZFO, however, so my question now is: are these functionally identical to the 16464 in all important aspects (threads, length, helicoid extension & c), or are there any gotchas I should be aware of?

 

My TE 4/135 is the last model without a pull-out lens shade.

 

 

Hi Per,

 

Welcome to the club. I find working with the Visoflex III is a lot of fun.

 

To your questions:

 

Yes, OTZFO and 16464 serve the same purpose, AFAIK.

I believe, OTZFO is the original name. Later this universal focus mount was marked 16464.

In fact, I have one black one, marked just 16464, and several chrome versions, marked 16464K.

The 16464/OTZFO fits 3 different lenses, namely the 65/3.5, 90/2.8, and TE 135/4.

 

I have the 16471(J) and 16472K.

For your TE 135/4 you need to get the 16471 or 16471J as a macro adapter.

The 16472K is marked 1:4/135 and 1:4.5/135 and fits only older lenses than your TE 135/4.

 

You also might consider a Bellows II and adapter 16558Z. That gives you more flexibility.

 

You may have a look here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/124030-leica-m9-visioflex-iii-experiences.html

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

can i tag on to your thread?

 

i want to get a visoflex, my local independent camera store has two visoflex II's in stock but i couldn't fit either on my M9. the visoflex itself fit but i couldn't get the viewfinder on, it the horizontal one (i guess that's what it's called). it wouldn't slide in over the top of the camera. am i doing something wrong or am i S.O.L. with the II and need the III?

 

 

Hi,

 

For the M9 you need to get a Visoflex III with a right angle (horizontal) viewfinder and/or a vertical (chimney) finder.

 

In principle a Visoflex II could be modified.

Washington here in the forum did that.

But there are other advantages to the Visoflex III.

 

Best, K-H.

[Washington]

Yeah, I gotta 1646k that I have all apart just now. The interior bellows is torn from a

large portion of the front bellows retaining ring: thus exposing the bright brass helical

focusing ring. I’m giving this some time for option considerations as I don’t know what

I’ll do to retain it.

Oh, you will have a good time with you’re ‘’new’’ Viso…. there is some study involved

as to what the devil adapts what!

[elgenper]

.....

The 16464/OTZFO fits 3 different lenses, namely the 65/3.5, 90/2.8, and TE 135/4.

 

I have the 16471(J) and 16472K.

For your TE 135/4 you need to get the 16471 or 16471J as a macro adapter.

The 16472K is marked 1:4/135 and 1:4.5/135 and fits only older lenses than your TE 135/4.

......

 

Thanks for the info, K-H! I seem to have gotten it wrong about those two rings... If I read you correctly, you´re using the 16471 directly between the lens head and the OTZFO; do you get to infinity with this combo? As I read the manual linked to from the other thread, the 16471 is used *in addition to* the 16472 to extend the close focus range, while the 16472 is used alone for infinity down to around one meter.

 

Seems a jungle, indeed....

 

Yeah, I gotta 1646k that I have all apart just now. The interior bellows is torn from a

large portion of the front bellows retaining ring: thus exposing the bright brass helical

focusing ring. I’m giving this some time for option considerations as I don’t know what

I’ll do to retain it.

Oh, you will have a good time with you’re ‘’new’’ Viso…. there is some study involved

as to what the devil adapts what!

 

Thanks, Rip! Your Visoflex posts were what got me interested in the first place; right now I deeply regret selling my Novoflex Follow-Focus gear for a song years ago.....

 

So there´s a bellows inside the 16464/OTZFO? Thought it was all metal, and so more or less indestructible... Another thing to look out for when buying, then; replacing a torn bellows is no simple task...

[Washington]

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Yeah, because the adapter has to move in & out there is a little bellows inside to

go along and defeat the reflections from the brass. Pretty cool actually, and this sort

of damage is uncommon in this adapter…. though now I see where a bit of leather

treatment to keep it pliable is not a bad idea.

Goodness, a big part of the fun for me is figuring all this crazy sh**t out!!

You will too have fun…. frustrating as it may be at times. Gee, glad I could help!!

[village idiot!]

Thanks, need to find a III now

[Washington]

K-H,

Odd you bring up the OTZFO ‘'Universal Adapter’’ because I just got one me-own-self.

It seems there were serval variations of this too! Mine has a tripod mounting foot on it

like the #16466 and like that it allows 90 degree rotation of the camera while mounted. Cool!

Just now I have the 135mm, f4.5 Hektor head with a #16472 adapter screwed into it

and all is well. I do have to make lists to keep up with this stuff!

[Washington]

Village Idiot:

You need a Viso III Prism with the flat bottom to fit… (sorry) and after that you may need

a higher shutter arm…. depending on what is on your Viso now. Is this a Viso II with

the lever to manually lower the mirror? They do work well once all is is order!

[Washington]

Oh, the modification to the linkage to rase the shutter arm in the Viso II and IIa

is more trouble than the Viso II is worth…. I just like seeing what can be done.

The easier way is to get a Viso III arm.

[jaques]

My Viso II works fine on m8 and m9 with a Viso II finder fitted.

 

you can also use the Viso II with a chimney finder, and you can actually use them without the finder- focusing right of the ground glass (certainly not ideal).

[Washington]

Nope: it is impossible to fit the original Viso II ( with the round adjustable for diopter

eyepiece) to an M-9. The taller M series starting with the M-5 was taller needing room

for the internal light-meter: the whole reason they designed the Viso III in the

first place. Man, do I ever have a bunch if Viso II prisms around here that have been

replaced with Viso III prisms, one of which was totally rebuild and refinished because

the prism and lower lens was smashed & busted.

If your Viso II or IIa fits: it ain’t a Viso II finder.

[sblutter]

Have fun calibrating it!

 

Focus (shims), framing (mirror stop) have been dealt with in the forum extensively

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks for the info, K-H! I seem to have gotten it wrong about those two rings... If I read you correctly, you´re using the 16471 directly between the lens head and the OTZFO; do you get to infinity with this combo? As I read the manual linked to from the other thread, the 16471 is used *in addition to* the 16472 to extend the close focus range, while the 16472 is used alone for infinity down to around one meter.

 

Seems a jungle, indeed....

 

 

 

Per,

 

Not really a jungle.

The problem is there are many different Visoflex charts that reflect the lens offerings of Leitz at the time.

Of course, new lenses were added and old ones removed from the chart.

So, there is not a single complete chart showing all the lenses that actually work on a Visoflex I, II, or III.

I am working on my spreadsheet to make it more complete and will put it out here at the forum in a few days.

 

Now to your misunderstanding.

 

• You state you have a Tele-Elmar 135/4. Correct?

If that is so, then it ain't an Elmar 135/4 or Elmar 135/4.5 or Hektor 135/4.5. Right?

So let's stick with the TE 135/4 with removable lens head. Okay?

In order to be able to focus to infinity, all you need is the M9, Visoflex III, Universal Focus Mount OTZFO = 16464 K, and the TE 135/4 lens head.

That's it.

 

If you want to do some macro, you stick the Adapter Ring OTRPO = 16471 J between the lens head and the OTZFO = 16464 K. You are done!

 

In addition, you could also add a different Adapter Ring, namely OUFRO = 16469 Y = 16469 between the OTZFO = 16464 K and the Visoflex III. Basically, the more you increase the distance between lens head and sensor, the shorter the distances become you can actually achieve focus on.

 

If you want a more powerful and convenient setup then you need a Bellows II and an additional adapter so that the lens head can be attached to the Bellows II. There are a handful of adapters for different lens heads and Telyts. I suggested the one most useful for your lens.

 

Of course, you have seen the old joke that Leitz/Leica was a ring company that also made cameras.

 

Good luck.

 

Best, K-H.

[elgenper]

Have fun calibrating it!

 

Focus (shims), framing (mirror stop) have been dealt with in the forum extensively

 

Yes, I´ve seen them, and I dont think I´ll escape the need; digital sensors are more finicky than film.

 

It does seem OK now, but once I get all the pieces together, I´ll do some real tests.

 

As a (rather important) aside: contrary to popular belief, long lenses and/or extreme closeups are usually NOT the most sensitive cases for calibrating a matte screen focusing device; what matters is the top angle of the cone defined by the exit pupil of the optics used and a point on the sensor: this angle should be as large as in any real use situation one is likely to encounter. And that usually means a rather short, fast lens with close to minimum extension. Just mounting the lenses on the device and looking from behind should give an indication....

 

So, I don´t think I´ll use the TE 135, but something like the Summicron 50 in the shortest mount possible. The good thing is that correct calibration is pure geometry; once it´s spot on, it will be spot on for any lens at any distance (in marked contrast to the situation with rangefinder calibration.... ).

 

(Field curvature will of course complicate things, but....).

[k-hawinkler]

Let me add to the question of Visoflex II or III.

 

Jaap states the following, quote: "Sorry, the Visoflex II itself, including arm, will fit, its prism will not." in http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1586898-post87.html.

 

And of course, he is correct. So, if you enjoy handy work or you are good at it, then you can start with a Visoflex II or IIa a la Washington and eventually end up with something that works on an M9.

 

Or you get a properly working Visoflex III in the first place and have some photography fun right away.

That's what I did.

 

It's everybody's choice.

 

K-H.

[elgenper]

Per,

 

Not really a jungle.

....Now to your misunderstanding.

 

• You state you have a Tele-Elmar 135/4. Correct?

If that is so, then it ain't an Elmar 135/4 or Elmar 135/4.5 or Hektor 135/4.5. Right?

So let's stick with the TE 135/4 with removable lens head. Okay?

In order to be able to focus to infinity, all you need is the M9, Visoflex III, Universal Focus Mount OTZFO = 16464 K, and the TE 135/4 lens head.

That's it.

 

....

 

You answered while i was typing the above post, so I didn´t see it right away. A very informative answer, too, thanks a lot!

 

Just to be sure about that lens, here´s the bugger without its (12575) shade:

 

 

It is indeed a Tele-Elmar 4/135, and the s/n is 2654532. And, of course the lens head is indeed removable. It´s in perfect condition (apart from the dust in the pic above ) and VERY sharp and contrasty when focus is correct....

 

Edit: just found your chart in the other thread; again, thanks!

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[k-hawinkler]

Per,

 

Thanks. I am glad I could help. Your lens seems to be from 1973.

I have several copies of that lens, made between 1965 and 1970.

These lenses are so inexpensive and absolutely fantastic performers.

Certainly one of my favorites. I use them a lot for landscape photography.

 

Best, K-H.

[Washington]

Per,

Don’t worry any over adjustments and shims…. of the five Visos I have have

Viso II,IIa,&III three all were fine. I only got into the shims when trying new

‘’ground-glass’ in the body: a total waste of time as the real glass original is just

fine!