R Lens question.

[Robinyuill]

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Hi there. Since having had an M8 for a while now, I recently bought an M2 and rediscovered the joy of 35mm film again. I have thought about getting a Leicaflex SL or something newer. The only thing is, I am a bit unsure about which type of lens fits which camera. The confusion is about the different cams in the lenses. Is there a guide somewhere that I can study? Thanks for any guidance. Regards Robin.

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[adan]

The short version is that almost all R lenses are forward-compatable. If it worked on a 1968 SL it will work on newer cameras. The very early "Leicaflex Standard" lenses pre-1968 may(?) need modification to work with later cameras.

 

The mirror-lockup 21 f/3.4 for the Standard won't work with later bodies (no mirror lockup).

 

Separate from the cam issue, which I leave to better experts - some wide R lenses are not backwards compatable with Leicaflex Standard or SL cameras, due to a change in the mirror movement (16 fish, 24 Elmarit, maybe 35 f/1.4(?), second-version 19 f/2.8(?) ) The earlier mirror will hit the back element of those lenses.

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[wildlightphoto]

Short answer: for maximum lens/body compatability, you want an R3 or newer body and either 3-cam, 3rd cam or ROM lenses. Old 1-cam and 2-cam lenses may be used but metering might not be accurate. The 3rd cam, used by the R bodies, can be added to any 2-cam lens and some 1-cam lenses.

 

If you prefer one of the older Leicaflex bodies it can get a little complicated:

 

Any 3-cam lens can be used on the Leicaflex SL2 and most can be used on the Leicaflex Standard and Leicaflex SL. The ones that cannot be used on the Leicaflex Standard and SL are the ones that protrude too far into the mirror box.

 

Any 2-cam lens can be used on the SL2, and most can be used on the Leicaflex and SL (mirror box clearance).

 

1-cam lenses can be used on any Leicaflex, with metering at working aperture on the SL and SL2.

 

Most 3rd-cam and ROM lenses cannot be used on any Leicaflex. I have seen one 3rd-cam 50mm Summicron-R that had a Leicaflex flange so it would physically fit the camera, but without the first and second cams metering was either at working aperture (by pressing the DOF preview button on the SL or SL2) or by using a hand-held meter (Leicaflex Standard). Many of the ROM lenses that don't have mirror box clearance problems can be modified slightly to fit a slightly modified Leicaflex SL. The second metering cam is added to the lens, and the inner diameter of the camera's flange is trimmed to fit the R-only lens flange. This can't be done with the Leicaflex or SL2 because they use the first cam and would damage the ROM contacts.

[SteveYork]

It sounds complicated in theory, but it really isn't in practice, assuming you're using some of the standard focal lengths.

 

1 cam -- original leicaflex

 

2cam -- leicaflex, including the SL and SL2

 

all 3 cams -- all leicaflex and R models, except R8/9

 

3rd cam only -- all R models, except R9/R9

 

ROM -- All R models, including R8/R9

 

(or something very close to the above).

 

As Doug points out, there are a few lenses the SL can't use, because of mirror clearance issues (e.g., 24mm), but they tend to be the "odd ball" focal lengths or 70's zooms (which you probably don't want to use anyway). And there's only 2-3 lenses (19mm, 24mm, and a zoom) (I beleive).

 

I encourage you to sample the Leicaflex SL, because it's on of those "need to try it to believe it" types of things. It's quiet for a mechanical SLR; little vibration and shutter lag (for an slr); simplicity of metering, because it's that easy needle system when you can see where you have to go in relation to where you; a big, bold and beautiful viewfinder (clarity to the max); and with the microprism focusing screen the image just pops into focus (in a startling, but good way).

 

I've been using rangefinders for 15 years, and got into Leicaflex SL two years ago for some animal trips. It's a really nice change from a rangefinder.

[masjah]

It sounds complicated in theory, but it really isn't in practice, assuming you're using some of the standard focal lengths.

 

1 cam -- original leicaflex

 

2cam -- leicaflex, including the SL and SL2

 

all 3 cams -- all leicaflex and R models, except R8/9

 

3rd cam only -- all R models, except R9/R9

 

ROM -- All R models, including R8/R9

 

(or something very close to the above).

 

As Doug points out, there are a few lenses the SL can't use, because of mirror clearance issues (e.g., 24mm), but they tend to be the "odd ball" focal lengths or 70's zooms (which you probably don't want to use anyway). And there's only 2-3 lenses (19mm, 24mm, and a zoom) (I beleive).

 

I encourage you to sample the Leicaflex SL, because it's on of those "need to try it to believe it" types of things. It's quiet for a mechanical SLR; little vibration and shutter lag (for an slr); simplicity of metering, because it's that easy needle system when you can see where you have to go in relation to where you; a big, bold and beautiful viewfinder (clarity to the max); and with the microprism focusing screen the image just pops into focus (in a startling, but good way).

 

I've been using rangefinders for 15 years, and got into Leicaflex SL two years ago for some animal trips. It's a really nice change from a rangefinder.

 

Minor clarification; three cam and third cam only lenses also work perfectly well on the R8 and R9 too; the ROM lenses optimise certain details of the performance, and add a few extra features.

[wildlightphoto]

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As Doug points out, there are a few lenses the SL can't use, because of mirror clearance issues (e.g., 24mm), but they tend to be the "odd ball" focal lengths or 70's zooms (which you probably don't want to use anyway). And there's only 2-3 lenses (19mm, 24mm, and a zoom) (I beleive).

 

As far as I know, the lenses that don't work with the Leicaflex and SL are:

 

15mm f/3.5

15mm f/2.8

16mm f/2.8 fisheye

late version 19mm f/2.8 (early version is fine)

24mm f/2.8

35mm f/1.4

last version 50mm f/1.4, E60 filter threads

90mm f/2 APO ASPH (non APO is fine and highly recommended)

21-35 Vario

28-90mm f/2.8-4.5 Vario

35-70 f/2.8

35-70 f/4

80-200mm f/4.5 (don't confuse with 80-200mm f/4, a very fine lens)

 

I encourage you to sample the Leicaflex SL, because it's on of those "need to try it to believe it" types of things.

 

Seconded! It's my favorite film SLR for all the reasons Steve mentioned. I've had mine modified to work with ROM lenses and meter calibrated for 1.5-volt silver-oxide batteries.

[JBA]

Based on Doug's (Wildlightphoto's) list above and his advocacy of the Leicaflex SL elsewhere on the internet, I opted for the SL2. I often use the 24 & 19 Elmarits, and besides, like having both the shutter speed and aperture readouts in the viewfinder.