Daunted by M8 purchase

[Leica Boss]

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>REPOST: Sorry if you are coming across this thread for a second time, it was taken down due to a change of username request by Admin.

 

Hey forum,

 

First I just wanted to say hi, I'm new here but the forum seems like a great resource and I'm really happy I found it.

 

I'm sorry I'm sure these have been asked before.

 

I am currently very interested in entering the world of RF photography. I want to buy a used M8 and will have around $2,000-$2,500 Australian Dollars in a few weeks for the body, ($2,300 AUD currently equals about $2,500 USD and 1,700 EUR). I have never shot with a Leica or any other RF before and from what I understand the M8 had a few "teething problems" so since my money is fairly limited I am nervous about purchasing one with any problems, also being in Australia I will most likely have to purchase from overseas.

 

How high do you think the risk of getting a "bad" M8 is if I buy off of ebay?

What questions should I ask the seller to assure I get a good body with no issues?

Do you think I have enough money ($2,000 - $2,500 AUD) to increase my chance of getting a good copy with a decent (low) shutter count? What sort of price do good M8.2's sell for? What's the difference between an M8.2 and an upgraded M8?

 

My other questions are regarding lenses and the compatibility of lenses with the M8. I will only have around $500 for a first lens for the camera, I know some people really dissaprove of not having Leica lenses on Leica bodies but this will just be my "introductory to RF cameras lens".which I will use until I have enough to upgrade. I know Voigtlander has 1 or 2 lenses at this low price but I I had read that some aren't a good choice for digital Leicas.

 

So I was hoping maybe someone could recommend me a cheaper lens that will be compatible with an M8 and = around 24 to 50 focal length (taking crop factor into consideration) I have tried to find reviews and info on how the crop factor affects the finder but I was unable to find much. Will the lens only work if it is 6-bit coded?

 

Sorry for such a long thread, I'm just really looking forward to buying an M8 and just want to do everything correctly. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply.

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[stunsworth]

Buy from a dealer, get an inexpensive Voigtlander 28mm lens

[earleygallery]

My advice, don't buy from ebay.

 

Buy your M8 directly from a dealer, either in Oz or elsewhere, and make sure it comes with a warranty - most dealers give at least 3 months, some 12 months warranty.

 

As for lenses, a 35 would be a good first choice, and with your budget that restricts you to an older Leica lens such as a Summaron f3.5, but you would have to be certain of buying a clean example.

 

I've got a few Voigtlander lenses and can't recommend them highly enough, the 35mm Skopar is a superb compact lens - I'd go for that in preference.

 

Good luck.

 

Edit - or the 28mm as Steve says, also a gem in their range.

[wda]

Welcome to the Forum, Leica Boss.

Buy from a regular Leica dealer for peace of mind and warranty back-up. If you stay loyal to a local dealer, he will help you as you add to your kit.

[farnz]

Hi, Josh,

 

I suppose it goes without saying that the risks are increased with buying an M8 from eBay so take as much care as you can. If you're a regular eBay user you'll know that there are a few tricks to cut down the risk, and in the case of an M8 I'd ask the seller if I could pick the camera up in person and pay cash. (I know you're in Oz but he won't know that.) If he says no then it's a reasonable indication that there might be something dodgy so I'd pass on that one and look elsewhere.

 

For questions to ask a seller have at look at this thread and if you use the search facility you'll find much more advice. You might have enough for a low shutter count M8 because people who sell them on are less likely to know how to calculate the shutter count or whether its significant.

 

The M8.2 is an M8 with a different, quieter shutter (M8 up to 1/8000th; M8.2 up to 1/4000th) sapphire glass on the LCD, Vulcanite covering instead of slippery plastic, rangefinder optimised to 2m distance instead of 700mm, and Snapshot Mode (close-your-eyes-and-fire mode). Is it worth the extra few hundred bucks? Dunno - your call.

 

Don't worry about not having a Leica lens on your M, lots of members use non-Leica lenses from time to time. There's no mistaking the quality of - and some say look from - Leica lenses but until you can afford the Leica lens(es) you lust after then the others'll do just fine. Voigtlander lenses are pretty good although there is sample variation (not all the same Voigtlander lenses are 'equal') but if you can find a Zeiss at a price you can afford (look for Zeiss "ZM" lenses, which are M-mount lenses) then you might prefer that.

 

Non-6-bit lenses will work just fine on the M8 as long as they're M-mount or LTM (Leica Thread Mount) with a LTM to M adaptor. The range of lenses that are compatible with the M8 is enormous; I'd go as far as to say that there are more lenses that are compatible with Leica M cameras than any other camera system. But someone's bound to put me right on that.

 

For reviews of lenses you can't go far wrong with Sean Reid'sreviews; it's a subscription site but imho well worth the price as other members will confirm.

 

Good luck and try to wear out the forum's Search facility!

 

Pete.

[lct]

I would buy on eBay from a professional dealer selling new and/or second hand cameras and lenses with a substantial warranty. For example: Voigtlaender Leica M 2,5/35mm P II Color Skopar | eBay

Edit: ask the export price (-19% in Germany for instance).

[markgay]

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Good advice so far. And it's a great camera.

 

A dealer may be able to let you try an M8 and 8.2 side by side. There's another advantage.

[gramorris]

You can't beat being able to get your hands on the camera before purchase, if you can you can then follow some of the tips in this thread. If you can get one from a good friendly dealer you also have someone you can look for advice from.

 

I'm a month in to my Leica experience, stick at it, you will get your rewards. I'm now feeling like my focussing is getting quicker and I'm getting to grips with exposing shots correctly for the optimal image quality. The M8 is a fantastic camera. Be prepared to lust after lots of kit. I've started with a CV 28mm Ultron, it's cheap and effective, I'm glad I've stuck with it as naturally it feels a bit wide for me.

[spylaw4]

farnz's advice is spot on! - I could not have put it better. except to say that you should IMO go for the 8 as opposed to the 8.2 - why pay the extra for exactly the same picture quality? You can worry about framing and quiet shutters later and can always get an add-on protector for the LCD at minimal cost.

Zeiss lenses are really very good - lots of people use them - they are pricier and more consistent than Voigtlander (CV) lenses but less than Leica glass - try the 28/2.8 on an M8.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Mikael Siirilä]

I would go for M8.2 instead of M8. Try them side by side at a dealer. Atleast for me the shutter was a big issue and changes the way shooting with the camera feels.

 

Also I would rather buy an older Leica lens than a newer Voitlander. For mechanics if nothing else.

[gramorris]

£1500 for an M8 or £2500 for an M8.2. It might sound odd but if I was going to spend £2500 on an M8.2 I'd double up and get the M9. The M8 and 8.2 produce exactly the same images, unless you shoot wide open in sunlight, in which case the M8 is the better camera to have. Horses for courses.

[Leica Boss]

Hey everyone,

 

Thanks for the replies! Another question is, if I bought an M8 and had the upgrades added after I had bought it would it be exactly the same as an M8.2? Or would there still be some differences?

 

Also, are the problems with the M8 solved with the upgrades? I know that there is something with the sensor getting lines at high ISO's? I assume that would be very expensive to repair? Any other problems I should know about?

 

I also looked around at dealers in AUS but everything costs much more here, it would be much cheaper to buy from the US have it shipped here AND pay the import tax thing, there are currently 2 Leica M8's at my local "used" dealer that are $3,500 AUD which is a lot considering they are cheaper in the US and the AUD is currently doing pretty well against the USD.

 

I checked KEH who had 2 in EX and EX+ condition for $26,99-$2,799 but it only comes with 60 day warranty, any other good online used dealers that might offer a longer warranty?

 

Thanks again.

[carlosecpf]

you can try:

tamarkin.com

popflash.com

[BonneyD]

Hi Leica Boss

 

Noticed your location, not far from me in Warrnambool!

 

I recently purchased a M8 off eBay, because of the reason you stated about Melbourne dealers too expensive. The seller I dealt with on eBay was in Sydney, I asked him about twenty questions about the camera which he was happy to answer and send extra photos. I too was nervous about buying on eBay, but it all worked out well and I couldn't be happier.

 

Not many M8's come up in Aus so I think you just have to be patient. Good luck:)

[earleygallery]

I've PM'd you a couple of links to UK dealers too

[mikenic]

Overall, it's a lot sunnier here in Oz than most parts of Europe.

So in a strange way, the original M8 may be a wiser purchase for you with its faster shutter speed than the M8.2 or M8 with shutter upgraded.

 

WRT lenses, personally I would buy Leica. You will save $$$ by purchasing the base M8 model. eg Something like an older 50mm Summicron (rigid) and the M8 original would make a very nice "all Leica" portrait kit.

 

FWIW, I think Leica is about their lenses, but that's just my 2c worth.

 

These forums (fora?) have Buy and Sell areas, so why not check out what's on offer here?

[!Nomad64]

Another question is, if I bought an M8 and had the upgrades added after I had bought it would it be exactly the same as an M8.2? Or would there still be some differences?

 

As already pointed out by farnz:

M8.2 has sapphire lcd cover vs. glass on M8

M8.2 has different framelines in viewfinder

M8.2 has updated shutter which is a bit quieter than M8's but you also lose the 1/8000 of M8 (basically they loosen the tension of the shutter springs)

M8.2 has slower flash sync of 1/180 vs 1/250 on the M8 for the very same reason above

M8.2 has Snapshot mode

M8.2 has a different covering (vulcanite vs plastic)

 

You can partly upgrade an M8 to an M8.2. You'll need to ship your M8 to Solms for the sake of it. You can opt for any of these options, eventually recombined: Leica Camera AG - Service - M8 Upgrade

 

 

Upgrade-options Prices in €

Shutter/Sapphire glass/Bright line frames 1320,- EUR

Shutter/Sapphire glass 1120,- EUR

Shutter/Bright line frames 1000,- EUR

Sapphire glass/Bright line frames 950,- EUR

Bright line frames 650,- EUR

Shutter 800,- EUR

Sapphire glass 750,- EUR

The stated prices include VAT and are valid ex Solms

 

If the camera sent for upgrading is still under warranty, the latter will be extended by a full year for the whole camera, even if they upgrade only one element. If you send a M8 which is not under warranty anymore, they'll give you one year warranty on the whole camera after upgrading.

 

Also, are the problems with the M8 solved with the upgrades? I know that there is something with the sensor getting lines at high ISO's? I assume that would be very expensive to repair? Any other problems I should know about?

 

Sensor banding issues were solved long ago. I have a vanilla M8 myself and never noticed anything like that.

There are the common issues with M8, i.e. very noisy if underexposed at higher ISO and the infamous purple-is-the-new-black thing.

 

These days M8s can be had for a song - in Leica terms, of course - and it might be an interesting option buying one and send it straight to Solms for upgrades, check-ups and have a full 1 year warranty. But bear in mind that if they find any fault with yr camera you'll have to pay for the extra repair and the day you'll want to sell it you'll never get back the moneys you paid for the purchase plus the upgrades.

 

Hope this helps,

Bruno