MarcRochkind Posted February 2, 2007 Share #1 Posted February 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) My M8 arrived a couple of hours ago (you may have seen my earlier post about ordering it from Adorama only a week ago). Some impressions, a couple of which may actually be new to you: 1. It's one of the defective cameras, so I guess it has to go back. Yeah, it's been physically updated, and the firmware is 1.09, but there's a spelling error on one of the menus. It should be "Lens dependent" for Auto Slow Sync, not "Lens dependant." Maybe the camera still functions OK--only further tests will tell. 2. I use my own ImageIngesterPro to bind bulk metadata (copyright, keywords, subject, etc.) and Camera Raw settings to raws at ingestion time by passing both the raw and the XMP sidecar through DNG Converter. Works great, but not for the M8, because DNG Converter (and the other Adobe software) ignores sidecars for DNGs, since they "know" that DNGs are self contained and don't need sidecars. Bummer. I guess I have to put the metadata in myself, using the DNG SDK that Adobe supplies, which is an enormous amount of work. Or, just do without bulk metadata (Camera Raw settings aren't that important to me) at ingestion time and add it in later. I still run the M8's DNGs through DNG Converter to get me the full-size JPEG preview and to adjust the image with the default Camera Raw settings at ingestion time. 3. Removing the bottom-plate to get at the card is beneath stupid. If I want to remove a bottom plate for old-time's sake, I have an M3 nearby. I can't connect a cable, either, because the camera doesn't mount as a drive, but is accessible only as a PTP device. I don't like connecting cameras with cables anyway. (Maybe somebody will make a flexible plastic replacement bottom "plate" that opens easily, for use when conditions aren't harsh and the camera is in a half-case anyway. After all, there's no film to fog, and I think the bottom is well sealed off from the optical path.) Does ANYONE like this bottom plate idea on an M8? 4. Resolution and zooming on the LCD are terrific. 5. I shot only a few pictures with my only modern lens, a 35mm Summicron, and they're really good. Seem to be better than my Nikon D200 with its giant 17-55mm zoom. Subjective opinion, not based on tests. 6. Cameras strap is a joke for a nearly $5000 camera. 7. With glasses, the 35mm framelines touch the limits of my vision, which is what I guessed, so I'm glad I got a 35mm lens and not anything wider for my first lens. 8. I have a very old 135mm M lens (non-Leica) which I wanted to try out. Unfortunately, no 135mm frame lines. Not that one would be able to see much in them anyway--viewfinder is way too wide for that focal length. Maybe I'll buy a 90mm, though. 9. You have to order both your free filters at the same time. (I checked with Leica via email.) Obviously I need a 39mm now, but I have no idea what I'll want later. Not sure it will be for a 90mm. Maybe the wide Tri-Elmar. My daughters like purple, so maybe I'll just do without the filter for a few months and when they wear black it can just be purple. 10. As a long-time SLR auto-focus guy, I really like the manual-focus rangefinder. Took me about 5 min. to get used to. I've had manual focus SLRs, too, but they were hard to focus compared to an Leica M. I really like picking the exact point of sharp focus in the scene. WIth my auto-focus Nikons (3 of them), I'm never quite sure what I've got. OK, aside from some horrible complaints (just kidding), the camera is a thing to love. I think I better cover my D200 so it doesn't get too dusty. Oh yeah... maybe you will enjoy this bit of irony: While I was waiting for my overly-IR-sensitive M8 to arrive, I sent my Nikon D70 off to have it modified for IR only! --Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 Hi MarcRochkind, Take a look here OK, so now you can have my M8 first impressions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
barjohn Posted February 2, 2007 Share #2 Posted February 2, 2007 The one thing I can really agree with is the bottom plate. What a dumb idea that was.With the R-D1 it was easy to remove the card and put it back. With the M8 it is a pain. I would have preferred that the cable connection provided a drive interface too but lacking that I don't like the access door being this flimsy piece of rubber. Couldn't they have put a nice metal hinged door with a spring instead? For $5k I would have thought so. My other gripes are in the area of menus in that I would like to be able to specify the focal length of the lens and I would like it to give me the f stop based on its estimate and record all in the Exif. Then make it work with both coded and uncoded lenses via the manual input. Lastly, improve the noise reduction at ISO 2500. With this size sensor they should be able to clean the signal up more. Despite these warts I really like the camera! Oh yes, fix the spelling error (not that I caught it). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmerideth Posted February 2, 2007 Share #3 Posted February 2, 2007 Six out of 10 you don't like. Send it back. g. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c6gowin Posted February 2, 2007 Share #4 Posted February 2, 2007 I thought the bottom plate was a dumb idea for the sake of tradition. However, after using the camera for a while it has turned out to be a non-problem. Thankfully. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted February 2, 2007 Share #5 Posted February 2, 2007 It is NOT a spelling error. Dependant is a variant of dependent. At least that is what it says in the 2 different dictionaries I looked in. Yes I really don't understand why they have a bottom plate. They should made two independent doors, one for the battery and one for the card. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcRochkind Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted February 2, 2007 Indeed, Ed is right... I had processed "dependant" with ACR 3.6. After running it through Camera One LE, I see the noise in my post is fixed. So, it seems that the M8 can be used as a dictionary, in addition to its many other fine features. --Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 2, 2007 Share #7 Posted February 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I kinda like the base plate, but I am not religious about it. If they come up with some kind of improvement, I will accept it fine. The way I learned English, dependant is a person (usually) who depends on someone, like your children depending on you. My Oxford English confirms this. So, it is a typo. Common mistake though, and I didn't catch, although I usually do catch such things. I find the camera strap acceptable, with a neat attachment system. However, you are right in that in this price class, I would expect something better. It doesn't quite stick and it doesn't quite slide. I would have preferred it exactly the same but without the rubber piece in the middle. More like an Upstrap would have been an acceptable choice too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heninger Posted February 2, 2007 Share #8 Posted February 2, 2007 My M8 arrived a couple of hours ago (you may have seen my earlier post about ordering it from Adorama only a week ago). 2. I use my own ImageIngesterPro to bind bulk metadata (copyright, keywords, subject, etc.) and Camera Raw settings to raws at ingestion time by passing both the raw and the XMP sidecar through DNG Converter. Works great, but not for the M8, because DNG Converter (and the other Adobe software) ignores sidecars for DNGs, since they "know" that DNGs are self contained and don't need sidecars. Bummer. I guess I have to put the metadata in myself, using the DNG SDK that Adobe supplies, which is an enormous amount of work. Or, just do without bulk metadata (Camera Raw settings aren't that important to me) at ingestion time and add it in later. I still run the M8's DNGs through DNG Converter to get me the full-size JPEG preview and to adjust the image with the default Camera Raw settings at ingestion time. 3. Removing the bottom-plate to get at the card is beneath stupid. If I want to remove a bottom plate for old-time's sake, I have an M3 nearby. I can't connect a cable, either, because the camera doesn't mount as a drive, but is accessible only as a PTP device. I don't like connecting cameras with cables anyway. (Maybe somebody will make a flexible plastic replacement bottom "plate" that opens easily, for use when conditions aren't harsh and the camera is in a half-case anyway. After all, there's no film to fog, and I think the bottom is well sealed off from the optical path.) Does ANYONE like this bottom plate idea on an M8? First off, Adobe Lightroom does a great job of bulk adding metadata on import. You might still be able to get the beta and try it out, but I add quite a bit of metadata on import and it works great. And secondly, I don't mind the plate at all. Kinda cool as an old M user. At least I know it won't break like those crappy plastic doors on most cameras (like the D70 I also own). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradreiman Posted February 2, 2007 Share #9 Posted February 2, 2007 i love the strap-but im a leica m guy to start with and used to it from previous m cameras. if you can afford the 5 g's you can afford the strap of your choice. only open the bottom plate evey 142 shots or so-can live with that, come on. haven't opened the usb door yet-been using card readers for years now. couldn't care less how they spell shit-can't see it in the pictures. if you have an m3 nearby why did you have to "get used to" rangefinder focussing? love my 135 2.8 on the m8-with goggles and 1.25 magnifier its like looking through freakin binoculars. easy as pi to focus. not trying to be nasty just over the whinging. really-not trying to be nasty. hope you enjoy it-look forward to seeing some pics. it really is a fantastic camera...b Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapperJ Posted February 2, 2007 Share #10 Posted February 2, 2007 I would much rather have a solid removable bottom plate than a card door with its small catch and poor hinges which can break. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Roggen Posted February 2, 2007 Share #11 Posted February 2, 2007 How can you tell if it's one of the defective ones and why does it have to go back if it's 'physically updated'? Hans Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted February 2, 2007 Share #12 Posted February 2, 2007 What's wrong with the bottom plate, it's functional, adds to the clean lines if the M8 and is not difficult to open, change cards/battery and close again all within 5 seconds. If you think about it to put a battery or card door on the back of the M8 would destroy the clean classic style, put it on the bottom with hinged doors could lead to problems with broken hinges and catches let alone the door opening and your card/battery falling out. I'm not a slave to tradition or retro styling, but I think Leica got it right, it's just a matter of getting your head around it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 2, 2007 Share #13 Posted February 2, 2007 Does ANYONE like this bottom plate idea on an M8? I like it. The baseplate seems second nature if you have shot M cameras extensively before. I'd have preferred it if the camera would work without the baseplate for those times when you want to format a bunch of cards, but otherwise it's fine. Cameras strap is a joke for a nearly $5000 camera. I guess it depends whether you buy the M8 to use as a camera. What it lacks in fancy leather, it more than makes up for in functional quality. I'm not even sure what sort of strap is meant to come with a "$5000 camera". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Roggen Posted February 2, 2007 Share #14 Posted February 2, 2007 What's wrong with the bottom plate, it's functional, adds to the clean lines if the M8 and is not difficult to open, change cards/battery and close again all within 5 seconds. If you think about it to put a battery or card door on the back of the M8 would destroy the clean classic style, put it on the bottom with hinged doors could lead to problems with broken hinges and catches let alone the door opening and your card/battery falling out. I'm not a slave to tradition or retro styling, but I think Leica got it right, it's just a matter of getting your head around it. Hear hear. Hans Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 2, 2007 Share #15 Posted February 2, 2007 I'd prefer to have a docking station to allow you to recharge the camera and connect to it - with the card mounted as a drive - to pull off the photographs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neila Posted February 2, 2007 Share #16 Posted February 2, 2007 I quite like the bottom plate - whilst it probably has no real functional practicality, it's a nod and a wink to the Leica's we already own. It's a bit like some cars might feature an old looking clock - it's reassuring somehow. I use the USB link - it's very easy and the M8 appears as a network drive. No complaints with my M8 yet - particularly having been shown the secrets of WB! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted February 2, 2007 Share #17 Posted February 2, 2007 Love that bottomplate for all the good reaons Eoin points out so well .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 2, 2007 Share #18 Posted February 2, 2007 I'd prefer to have a docking station to allow you to recharge the camera and connect to it - with the card mounted as a drive - to pull off the photographs. No offence Mark, but isn't this your software engineer persona (or whatever it is that you do or did) revealing itself? Call me an old fart but I'm rather glad that the M8 cannot become a computer peripheral like an iPod that we 'dock-in' and 'dock-out'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted February 2, 2007 Share #19 Posted February 2, 2007 Don't like the plate for conveninece, do like the plate for tactile qualities - remembering older M's. Probably chosen because it was something they didn't have to severely re-engineer, and could keep simple. Mixed feelings. Do like the strap and always have. Its not too precious, and it does the trick for me - stays on, unlike the older leather straps that always slipped off. The best is the ease of use - focus is a dream, quick, accurate and easy. Set your f stop as you wish, check shutter speed (on "A") and bang away. What could be easier? Full control, and fast to use. Done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 2, 2007 Share #20 Posted February 2, 2007 I would much rather have a solid removable bottom plate than a card door with its small catch and poor hinges which can break. I agree. When the firmware updates allow 4 gig SDs it'll even be less of an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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