Leica M3 and Leicameter

[flavio]

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Is there a way to realize about Leicameter production in the 1955 year as we can realize for M camera?

 

MANY THANKS.

 

Flavio

[luigi bertolotti]

Is there a way to realize about Leicameter production in the 1955 year as we can realize for M camera?

 

MANY THANKS.

 

Flavio

 

Leicameter was a Leitz - Branded product but seems to me that in industrial terms it went out from Gossen factory: I think this makes difficult to have production data per year as for the (well known and studied...) Leitz Wetzlar factory books.

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[doubice]

Is there a way to realize about Leicameter production in the 1955 year as we can realize for M camera?

 

Flavio

 

Flavio,

 

Most, if not all Leicameters were manufactured by Metrawatt, who only a few years ago became part of Gossen. The 1955 version was called Leicameter M and it was the first meter that was fully coupled with the shutter speed dial of the M3.

 

The second version, the Leicameter MC came out I believe in the late 1950's. It was more sensitive and used an internal baffle for the high-low range, instead of the external flap of the original Leicameter M.

 

The third version - Leicameter MR, switched to a CdS cell instead of the Selenium cell of the M and MC and again had increased sensitivity over the MC. As well, the measuring angle of the MR meter was the same as that of a 90mm lens so that by activating the 90mm preview frame of the camera, one could do a more or less selective measurement.

 

The MR meter had an on/off switch on its side, which became rather awkward with the introduction of the M4 with its rewind crank. Thus - a second version of the MR was introduced, with the switch relocated to the top plate of the meter.

 

As to the number of meters produced, I am afraid that those numbers will be difficult to find.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[jc_braconi]

and every model of leica meter have its own serial numbering !

Cheers

jc

[flavio]

Thanks a lot for all your replies.

 

Jan,

you appear to be a sort of Pico della Mirandola! Great knowledge and information indeed.

 

JC,

maybe you mean that there is a "page" where I can realize about the 1955 serial number?

Maybe you can even tell me where to look for, or just in the Leitz Wetzlar factory books as said by Luigi?

 

Great Group indeed! Thanks.

 

Flavio

[doubice]

and every model of leica meter have its own serial numbering !

Cheers

jc

 

Yes, every Leica meter is serialized, but to my knowledge there is no list with dates and quantities produced. Nobody found it as important to date Leicameters as they did with lenses and bodies.

 

Jan

[jc_braconi]

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Better to speak about a 1955 model

in 1955 METRA Leicameter M Early one had DIN/ASA/Weston and later ones DIN/ASA fim speed scales, You can ad a booster cell MBOOW fitted at the side

a flap with a slit covered the cell for bright light conditions

http://perso.orange.fr/br.collection/leicameterM.jpg

s/n 040570

 

in 1957 issue for the Leicameter MC

[flavio]

if I understand correctly: I may find a Leicameter 1955, called M, selenium cell with serial numer around 040570.

A fast google search did not give me good result. I'll try again, of course, but maybe you know some photo shop where I can find a working and nice look M? Or maybe advise some dealers (if in Europe would be great)?

 

I've seen what appear to be a good shape M3 in Leicashop, an Austrian photo dealer. Maybe some of you did previous business there?

 

I'm sorry to ask you one more: a 28/21 wideangle again born in 1955 would be appreciate. I suppose there may be a year list of lens. Am I correct?

 

Sorry to bother you this way and hope I may help you in the future.

 

Flavio

[doubice]

Flavio,

 

In 1955 Leitz produced a 5.6/28mm Summaron and a 4/21mm Super Angulon. Both are not particularly easy to find.

 

The Summaron was only available in screw mount, while the Super Angulon was available as a 'convertible' lens. It was originally a thread mount lens, which came with a specially designed M mount adapter when ordered for a bayonet mount camera.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[flavio]

Jan,

may be wise go for a 35mm?

 

Flavio

[doubice]

Jan,

may be wise go for a 35mm?

 

Flavio

 

Flavio,

 

That is a question only you can answer, as it depends on your shooting style. The M3 will need a separate viewfinder for all lenses wider than the 50. However, most of the 35mm lenses came with 'spectacles', which enlarge the 50mm view of your M3 to the view of the 35mm lens.

 

I would not recommend the Summaron 28mm as it is quite slow and surpased in quality by the more modern lenses. Same would apply to the 4/21mm Super Angulon. If you wish to get an excellent value for your money, check some of the new Voigtlander / Cosina lenses. Most will be better than the early Leitz wide-angle optics.

 

Among the 35mm Leitz lenses you will find the Summicron 2/35 to be the best, but rather expensive. An excellent choice would be a 2.8/35mm Summaron with the M3 spectacles - not that expensive and an excellent lens. Stay away from the 'spectacled' 3.5/35mm Summaron. Its design dates to the late 1940's; it is not bad, but the 2.8 version is much better.

 

Ciao,

 

Jan

['Cron]

All:

 

You should consider investing in James L. Lager's authorative and illustrated book trilogy concerning Leica. :-)

 

From Leica An Illustrated History, Volume III - Accessories (Meridian 1998) a quick answer is found:

 

"When the Leica M3 arrived in 1954, Metrawatt obliged by producing the Leica Meter M. The [Leica-Meter] MC was announced in 1956, the MR in 1963 and the MR-4 in 1967. The MR-4 was cataloged well into the late 1980's." Lager at p. 244.

 

Jim Lager does not list any serial numbers for the various models. Neither does Dennis Laney in his Leica Collectors Guide (Hove 1992). However, Laney gives the Leica part number for the Leica-Meter MR as part 14210, with an introduction date of 1966 (later than Lager), and the Leica-Meter MR-4 as part 14217 (chrome) and part 14218 (black chrome) with an introduction dates of 1967 and 1968 respectively. See, Laney at page 240.

 

The difference in dates between the two authors/historians for the MR is cannot be explained. Laney appears to have his date for the MR (1966) wrong. Lager's date of 1963 is supported by the Leica Catalog, No. 37, which was published by E.Leitz [NY], Inc., on or shortly after May 1, 1964.

 

Leica Catalog No. 37 (Effective May 1, 1964) lists the Leica-Meter MR (part 14210) at a retail price of $48.00. The preceding Leica Catalog No. 36 (August 1961) lists only the MC, and not the MR.

 

Note that Metrawatt and Leitz cooperated on the early Leica Meter, which was introduced in 1950, which was followed by the Model 2 and 3 Leica Meters for thread mount Leicas. See, Lager at p. 242. At least you know between certain years as to when your particular Leica-Meter (M, MC, MR, MR-4) was produced.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill - Clearwater, FL

[jc_braconi]

Flavio,

I have an another one which is 021070

so you can range in.

for the lens I think a decent Summicron 50 ranging 1,236,001-1,333,000 (1955)

will make the good choice for a M3

Auguri

jc

[flavio]

JC,

great help! My hunt is beginning.

Grazie. :-)

 

Flavio

[flavio]

Jan,

I heard about not so high performance with wideangles I was talking about and you can confirm that.

I usually take picture with M4 and a good 50mm Summicron, so I was thinking about a wider lens to add.

I'll thank you for the advise (very appreciated) and will look around to find out.

 

Have a nice day (while we are in to the night).

 

fg

[R.Morrison]

While you might turn up a decent-looking M or MC meter, don't expect it to work. Internal oxidation killed all of them whether they were in use or not. I use an MR meter and find it quite useful when, at times, I wish to meter and to photograph without raising the camera to my eye. The top-mounted metering needle and field facilitate this.

 

R. Morrison, M4-P, etc.

[flavio]

While you might turn up a decent-looking M or MC meter, don't expect it to work. Internal oxidation killed all of them whether they were in use or not. I use an MR meter and find it quite useful when, at times, I wish to meter and to photograph without raising the camera to my eye. The top-mounted metering needle and field facilitate this.

 

R. Morrison, M4-P, etc.

 

 

Hi R. Morrison,

yes, I think you are right.

 

I also use a CdS Leicameter on my M4. It seems working fine. I'm doing some comparisons between Leicameter and Weston Master V (recently purchased) and a Ranger n.9 (just arrived).

Weston V and Leicameter appear to be in good agreement last saturday in the Tuscany countryside and Velvia slides went out ok. Tomorrow morning I'll do the same adding Ranger 9.

 

Regards.

 

Flavio

[luigi bertolotti]

if I understand correctly: I may find a Leicameter 1955, called M, selenium cell with serial numer around 040570.

A fast google search did not give me good result. I'll try again, of course, but maybe you know some photo shop where I can find a working and nice look M? Or maybe advise some dealers (if in Europe would be great)?

 

I've seen what appear to be a good shape M3 in Leicashop, an Austrian photo dealer. Maybe some of you did previous business there?

 

I'm sorry to ask you one more: a 28/21 wideangle again born in 1955 would be appreciate. I suppose there may be a year list of lens. Am I correct?

 

Sorry to bother you this way and hope I may help you in the future.

 

Flavio

 

Flavio (are You Italian ?..well, go on in english, anyway),

Leicashop of Wien is a dealer you really can trust in: I bought several hardware from them: very precise in defining the quality, fast in delivery, and also available for exchanges in particular instances (One day, years ago, I found there a super rare 180 2,8 for Visoflex...costly...and we arranged a partial exchange for a IIIg body of my own...)

The tables with lens numbering realted to year of production are easily available on many sources, example in Rogliatti and Laney books: 1955 lenses are surely in the range 1.2xx.xxx - 1.3xx.xxx : the books above are precise and concordant (I have copy at home, but not here).

I have a 21 f4 BM/TM of 1959: it is estetically very very nice, but performances not excellent : also at 8-11 fallen light at borders is significant; on the contrary, I use with satisfaction my 28 f5,6 of 1958: of course, is 5,6 a no more, but stopping to 8-16 lighting is even, contrast good, sharpness less than excellent, but many times this do not disturb me a lot (I have also a modern 28 2,8 : sharpness completely different).

Both 28 5,6 and 21 4 are not common (neither cheap) in the market, but also not so rare: wait, and something shall appear somewhere (besides Leicashop, Rahn of Germany is another good source in Europe). If you plan to use such lenses, you have to put yourself in a specific mood, that in my opinion is this:

- using classic Leicas and lenses is a pleasure by itself

- print results until 24x30 are ALWAYS satisfactory

- is stupid to put side to side a 28 5,6 from 50's with, say, a good Nikkor 28 from 21 century : like to use old Leitz hardware ? : use it, period

- search for lens quality by itself ?: Leica new lenses are available...just pay if you like

 

BTW...leicashop presently seems to have 21 f4 (1959) available, together with old 28 6,3 Hektors (I have it also, results not so different from 28 5,6 in practice, little less contrast); Rahn has some 28 5,6, 21 3,4 (EXCELLENT lens), no 21 f4

[jc_braconi]

While you might turn up a decent-looking M or MC meter, don't expect it to work. Internal oxidation killed all of them whether they were in use or not..

Just to inform that my 2M & 2MC are working !

even the boosters are working and accurate compared with my MRs and MR4s

I have some Leicameter 2 & 3 that are always working too.

Cheers

jc

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[flavio]

Just to inform that my 2M & 2MC are working !

even the boosters are working and accurate compared with my MRs and MR4s

I have some Leicameter 2 & 3 that are always working too.

Cheers

jc

 

 

JC,

are you saying that you are selling Leicameter M/1955 to be used in connection with M3/1955?

If so: are overhauled and good shaping and working? Maybe you have photos to share?

 

Many Thanks and sorry if I have misunderstood.

 

Flavio