wparsonsgisnet Posted January 31, 2007 Share #1 Posted January 31, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Either I am getting tired of saying it or everyone else is getting tired of reading it, but I really want an f1.4 lens in the 21 to 28 range, preferably closer to the 21-end -- Don't take the easy road, Leica. There must be a way to stop beating this dead horse. Surely there are others here with similar heretical thoughts. Is there a way to get Leica to listen (read: make such a lens) by engaging in a group shout here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Hi wparsonsgisnet, Take a look here Petition for an f1.4 wide-angle lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted January 31, 2007 Share #2 Posted January 31, 2007 The front element and housing would be so big that it would block most of the viewfinder and the cost would be up there with the 400/560/800mm R lens with the focusing unit (somewhere in the $10000+ range) and just how many people would buy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 31, 2007 Share #3 Posted January 31, 2007 If it happens, it is most likely to be at the 28mm end of your range. Personally speaking I'd rather that Leica aimed their efforts at a full-frame sensor (as unlikely as it may seem at the moment) so that I could use my 50/1.4 how it was meant to be used. In fact, it doesn't even have to be 100% full-frame - a 1.1x crop would be okay. Incidentally, the 28/2 is big enough as it is - a 28/1.4 or 24/1.4 is going to be something not unlike the Noctilux in size and weight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 31, 2007 Share #4 Posted January 31, 2007 A larger more sensitive sensor (say capable of a clean ISO 6400 image) would be a better solution. No weight gain and you get the benefit across all of your lenses. For this you would pay once rather than the cost to make each lens faster and you get to keep the lenses you have! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Branch Posted January 31, 2007 Share #5 Posted January 31, 2007 A larger more sensitive sensor (say capable of a clean ISO 6400 image) would be a better solution. No weight gain and you get the benefit across all of your lenses. For this you would pay once rather than the cost to make each lens faster and you get to keep the lenses you have! The other, and much more likely in my opinion, way is to produce a new range of lenses for the 18 x 27 mm sensor size. Say: 21mm f/2 Summicron-MD. I believe, based on certain conversations, that Leica were/are waiting to see how the M8 is accepted in the market before deciding what to do about the lens range which they recognise is currently biased towards the 24 x 36mm sensor size. They have to be careful. They are small and it does not take an MBA to recognise what has happened to some much larger players as the switch to digital has gathered pace. In many ways it is gratifying that they are still operating. My personal vote is for a high grade 18mm lens, f/4 perhaps if for both film and CCD but f/2.8 if only for digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 31, 2007 Share #6 Posted January 31, 2007 Peter, you are right, it would be less costly for Leica to make special digital only lenses for the M8 that are smaller, faster and lighter. They would make more money selling these new lenses than by making yet another camera. The current sensor would become a full frame sensor for the new lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted January 31, 2007 Share #7 Posted January 31, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, please! I would buy it immediately. I miss the equivalent of the 35 summilux on the M8. If Leica would produce a 28 1.4, I would sell both my 28 summicron and Noctilux, I would not have to change lens anymore and be concerned about dust. Giulio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sievers Posted January 31, 2007 Share #8 Posted January 31, 2007 The Ultron is a pretty good lense and stops down to 1.9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 31, 2007 Share #9 Posted January 31, 2007 it would be less costly for Leica to make special digital only lenses for the M8 that are smaller, faster and lighter. If the even smaller 4/3rds system is anything to go by, the lenses are not especially small, fast or light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJL Posted January 31, 2007 Share #10 Posted January 31, 2007 I tend to agree that it would be great to have a super-wide, or at least a rather-wide at a faster speed than 2.8-4 (yes, the 28/2 is an exception for now). However, I am not sure I would want the size, weight and cost of something like a 21/1.4. By example on the DSLR side, Sigma makes a 21/1.8 for use on Canon, Nikon and their own. It is about the widest and fastest thing out there for those cameras. It is not a great lens by any stretch, and folks that have used it almost never shoot wide open without some ugly results. It is also a huge piece of kit for such limited use. With the M/M8 there is now a superwide in the Zeiss 15/2.8. Look at that size and cost, and it is still only f2.8. A 21/1.4 as suggested would be about that same size, or a bit larger, and be extremely hard to make with the expected edge-to-edge sharpness. Besides, how many folks would really be shooting a superwide at f1.4? Even with the larger DOF of that shorter focal length, at f1.4, things coulld be very tricky, and would require rangefinder coupling for sure. It might be useful for low light shooting, but it would be a challenge to hadle for sure. Just my opinions. I like the idea of getting things to at least f2 on the wider end, but from there, I would definitely prefer better ISO control (less noise and maybe intermediate stops). The thought of a separate "line" of lenses just for the M8 and successors is not all that attractive. Canon is wrestling with that now. Nikon pretty much shut the door on FF sensors, and embraced the "digital" versions on their lens line. Not any smaller or cheaper, mostly because of AF needs that the Ms do not have. The real downside is if Nikon does go to FF at some point....lots of unhappy campers who bought their DX lenses. Building to work at 24x36 sensor is more costly, and harder, but I am glad the Leica is doing that at this point. Will there ever be a FF M8? doubtful, but there may be something else that will utilize the full frame sensor, and I, for one, would not want to be "stuck" with lenses that only worked on the M8 at that point. Just an opinon ;-) LJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted January 31, 2007 Share #11 Posted January 31, 2007 Would be nice, but the optical challenges are significant. As others have mentioned, we'd almost certainly end up with a very large, heavy lens in order to get there. I just last night received my 28 Cron ASPH, in order to get back the field of view that my beloved 35 Lux ASPH provides on my M6 and M7. It's disappointing to lose the one stop, but I think it's a little less of an issue on the M8 than on a film camera - where you're pretty much locked into one ISO for the roll. I'm also finding that I'm much more willing to use a highish ISO on the M8 than I ever was when shooting film (640 provides very nice image quality). That all said, I'd love to be able to buy a 24 or 28 Lux, if it had the same sterling optical qualities, came at a similar price point, and was no bigger or heavier than the 28/35 Lux ASPH models already out there. I'm just not sure that's doable. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 31, 2007 Share #12 Posted January 31, 2007 If the even smaller 4/3rds system is anything to go by, the lenses are not especially small, fast or light. umm, 7-14 isnt wide ? thats the widest wide around i thought 11-22 is F2.8, thats as fast as anything else that wide and you can actually use it without turning the edges to mush 6 new lenses, all zooms apparently this PMA from Oly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted January 31, 2007 Share #13 Posted January 31, 2007 6 new zoomers, all mid to low-end models ... that really shows where Oly and 4/3 is heading. To ask Leica to waste their money and energy on digital only optics design is no different from suggesting them the practice of euthanasia ... now even Nikon will go FF after BS about the advantage of DX for ... how many years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 31, 2007 Share #14 Posted January 31, 2007 LOL simon glad to see you know what they are CIA contacts ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted January 31, 2007 Share #15 Posted January 31, 2007 Nah ... Bob ... it's just a coincidence. I like 4/3 as much as you do but, I realized its limitations ... and theses new cams and lenses will be built in Oly's factories in China. I know many things about the Japanese companies but I confess ... I have no contact in Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivek Iyer Posted January 31, 2007 Share #16 Posted January 31, 2007 21mm isn't that wide. Also, for an 1.33X crop sensor, the lenses need not become overtly big. The Zeiss Digiprimes for Arri (Super 16) are not that big. They have very fast apertures (f/1.2). Of course, they also come with a matching price tag! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 31, 2007 Share #17 Posted January 31, 2007 pretty much all the glass from all Japan based manufacturers comes from Chinese foundries I guess you have seen the image going around from that is supposed to be from the pro body then ? nice eh.... ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 31, 2007 Share #18 Posted January 31, 2007 Either I am getting tired of saying it or everyone else is getting tired of reading it, but I really want an f1.4 lens in the 21 to 28 range, preferably closer to the 21-end -- Don't take the easy road, Leica. There must be a way to stop beating this dead horse. Surely there are others here with similar heretical thoughts. Is there a way to get Leica to listen (read: make such a lens) by engaging in a group shout here? It would be great to have one. But it would need a major rewrite of optical theory to make the lens usable on a rangefinder. The front lens would need to be twice the diameter of a 2.0, the tube needs to be much wider, the throat diameter of the mount is too restrictive.... if anybody can pull it off it would be Leica, but it would involve some stratospheric optical acrobatics and the price would probably be horrendous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 31, 2007 Share #19 Posted January 31, 2007 I would also rather crank up the ISO up to 640 (I used to shoot only Neopan 400 rated at 250 before anyway) than ever buy or encourage a lens that cannot be used on a full frame body. Even if it was a special digital lens, it would still be expensive. Once a full frame rangefinder is released in the future, it would be practically worthless. When it gets too dark, I just switch to my 35lux and I always find a way to frame the object I want to frame, sometimes in an even more interesting way than I initially planned: You don't have to frame the eiffel tower from bottom to top and it will still be the eiffel tower. I agree that 28 1.4 would be nice, but if quality or interchangeability are compromised than they can keep it. A move in that direction would set back the research for a full frame rangefinder indefinitely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted January 31, 2007 Share #20 Posted January 31, 2007 ... now even Nikon will go FF after BS about the advantage of DX for ... how many years? The comic Billy Connolly memorably ranted to his audience that there is no such thing as bad weather; only the wrong clothing. With this in mind, there is no such thing as 'the' Full Frame; which is a marketing appropriation by Canon that usually slips by unchallenged. We have a choice of different sized sensors that are all in their own right the full size they are regardless of how big or small they are. Each marriage of sensor size and lens line has advantages and disadvantages, this is as true for Leica, Nikon, and Canon as it is for every other manufacturer. Surely this subject has been thrashed to death. Oh yes, and I also own a full frame DX Nikon, and very good it is too for the price. ......................Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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