28mm History

[jc_braconi]

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[Guest]

Reading marco cavina's incredibly detailed review of the 28mm elmarit version 2 and looking at youtube videos its clear that version 2 number 11802 has a higher degree of build quality and finish compared to version 3 that replaced it.

Both mandler designs by the way.

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[luigi bertolotti]

9 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Reading marco cavina's incredibly detailed review of the 28mm elmarit version 2 and looking at youtube videos its clear that version 2 number 11802 has a higher degree of build quality and finish compared to version 3 that replaced it.

Both mandler designs by the way.

V3 belongs to a time when they started to intoroduce plastic (Summicron 35 IV is of the same timeframe) ... a material not yet so mastered... the focus tab of my v3 got cracked with no special reason and I think is a common failure. 

[luigi bertolotti]

11 hours ago, jc_braconi said:

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Hey JC... why two V3 ? Their bocus levers look the same...

[adan]

The 28 v.2 is definitely denser (grams per volume, and grams absolute - 300g vs. 250g (v.3)).

But that in itself doesn't necessarily mean "better built." And I have seen some v.2s with the identical concave-plastic focus tab as the v.3 (and the 1980 35 Summicron and 21 Elmarit). Although perhaps a replacement at some point.

But on the whole, the v.2 does show other signs of build-quality (maybe) - the bevel on the DoF scale, other bits of extra machining (front bezel, aperture ring "steps"). A very comfortable size in the hand. It was designed (as jc's picture shows) to replicate the exernal look and feel of the V.1 as closely as possible.

But in the bag, every extra 50g is noticeable. Plus I like something LEICA will 6-bit code. Not some hatchet-job with a Dremel tool in a garage. And the v.2 is still soft in the corners....

Edited July 21, 2021 by adan

[Pyrogallol]

6 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

V3 belongs to a time when they started to intoroduce plastic (Summicron 35 IV is of the same timeframe) ... a material not yet so mastered... the focus tab of my v3 got cracked with no special reason and I think is a common failure. 

Mine is also cracked, I glued it up.

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[jc_braconi]

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On 7/20/2021 at 9:40 PM, jc_braconi said:

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One is Canada the other Germany

[agfa100]

I have a early Ver 2 that still had the inf lock on the focus tab I got it just before the M-5 came out. I do not use it a lot as right after I started to use it I came into a Ver 1 35 Summicron that became my main lens. I always thought it was a very well build lens and have been happy with the results from it. I now have just added a 28 Summilux so it will only be used when I want something smaller and lighter. I use them on a Sony a7s and a Sigma fp.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

V3 belongs to a time when they started to intoroduce plastic (Summicron 35 IV is of the same timeframe) ... a material not yet so mastered... the focus tab of my v3 got cracked with no special reason and I think is a common failure. 

Thanks for the information it was something i noticed looking at images,reviews and youtube videos of version 2 v version 3 .

[Guest]

So i bought a nice condition 28mm f2.8 elmarit  version 2 at a decent price from "the classic camera" possibly helped by the lens coming without a hood.

The lens was designed by walter mandler,garry edwards and eric wagner at the midland plant in canada

The closest lightroom profile i can find is the 28mm R lens which is from the same time span as my version 2,is that a sensible choice?

Took some pics in my elderly gads garden before i had a chance to check the RF focus and they came out nice.

So far so good.

Edited July 23, 2021 by steve 1959

[Guest]

On 7/21/2021 at 8:31 AM, adan said:

The 28 v.2 is definitely denser (grams per volume, and grams absolute - 300g vs. 250g (v.3)).

But that in itself doesn't necessarily mean "better built." And I have seen some v.2s with the identical concave-plastic focus tab as the v.3 (and the 1980 35 Summicron and 21 Elmarit). Although perhaps a replacement at some point.

But on the whole, the v.2 does show other signs of build-quality (maybe) - the bevel on the DoF scale, other bits of extra machining (front bezel, aperture ring "steps"). A very comfortable size in the hand. It was designed (as jc's picture shows) to replicate the exernal look and feel of the V.1 as closely as possible.

But in the bag, every extra 50g is noticeable. Plus I like something LEICA will 6-bit code. Not some hatchet-job with a Dremel tool in a garage. And the v.2 is still soft in the corners....

Regarding soft corners,just get the modern asph elmarit or the new voigtlander 28mm asph if thats the main issue? 

No doubt that the mandler team improved their own design with version 3 but so did karbe or others with modern asph elmarit.

But thats not the point of buying an older lens is it? 

[adan]

2 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

But thats not the point of buying an older lens is it?

I wouldn't know. I don't buy lenses because they are "older" or "newer."

I choose between M lenses of any era to optimize the weighted sum of - tonal range captured without clipping (shadows or highlights), resolution (center and corners, 60-80 lpmm, across all apertures), secondary aberrations, and color rendition. Convenience factors such as size, weight, max. aperture, six-bit codability, and availability are additional considerations.

Whether a lens is from 1960, or 1980, or 2021 is of no interest to me - only how many of my priorities it nails.

[jaques]

my V2 Canadian made lens was very sharp- sold it to get a Mate lens- but I do miss it a little:

 

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16 hours ago, adan said:

I wouldn't know. I don't buy lenses because they are "older" or "newer."

I choose between M lenses of any era to optimize the weighted sum of - tonal range captured without clipping (shadows or highlights), resolution (center and corners, 60-80 lpmm, across all apertures), secondary aberrations, and color rendition. Convenience factors such as size, weight, max. aperture, six-bit codability, and availability are additional considerations.

Whether a lens is from 1960, or 1980, or 2021 is of no interest to me - only how many of my priorities it nails.

Thanks,although you have in the past said you like or prefer walter mandlers or his teams designs.

[adan]

Yep - Mandler's lenses from ca. 1980 usually hit the sweet spot for me. But if they were made today (exactly the same) they would still hit the sweet spot for me.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, adan said:

Yep - Mandler's lenses from ca. 1980 usually hit the sweet spot for me. But if they were made today (exactly the same) they would still hit the sweet spot for me.

Well partly on your advice i bought a nice condition 90mm tele-elmarit [thin] about 2 years ago and its given me some lovely results.

I like the striking architecture images on your website,if any those images are with mandler lenses they are certainly a testament to both mandler and your own talent as a photographer.

I have been  impressed with my 1977 28mm elmarit version 2 so far even if it has softer corners than version 3 .

[adan]

Most of them are (pre-ASPH 21 Elmarit, 35 Summicron v.4, 90 TE thin - 35 and 90 images occasionally stitched). Two or three were from the M8 era, where a Voigtlander 15mm v.1 with coded LTM-M adapter served as my "20mm" lens.

Perspective correction in Photoshop, where needed.