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The X1: Now an AMAZING street photography machine!


ChiILX1

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Awesome- you guys made me look at my two collapsibles and voila. Very cool.

 

It definitely would be quicker using the lens like that, as would be manually focusing with the M. However, and again, my point here was that I set my focus and aperture before I leave my place so an extra second is irrelevant. It's so that you are ready to go when the shot appears, not so that you set this dof scale and focus once you see your opportunity.

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Ecaton- I am perplexed by your post.

 

The X1 has no shutter lag at all when in manual focus mode. None. Do you own one? Then Andy saying that CJ is clutching at straws by saying so is also just weird.

 

To put the X1 in zone focus mode before you leave takes a few seconds, just like the m9. Sure it's a couple seconds longer but this is preparation in the context I'm bringing it up here- like preparing your bag. It's not done in the field. The whole point was to do it before you leave in order to be always ready- but youre acting as though I said to do it once you see your shot! Besides, while it's longer on the X1 the x1 gives you information the m9 doesn't about what is going to be in focus- the actual DOF since FW2.0. This is what started this whole thread. Variable DOF based on aperture isn't on any M lens I own or have seen.

 

From starting a thread about MF zone focusing and its zero lag time based on 3 new firmware features, and getting criticized based on autofocus speed, lag time, and made-up comparisons to the m9, I'd say it's you two who seem to be grasping at straws- not CJ

 

Yes, I have an X1, and am one of the early adopters. Set your X1 to MF. Turn the camera, look straight into the lens, you don't have to say cheese, now push the shutter button and you will see the shutter leafs closing with some lag. That's called shutter lag. Actually something observed by many others before, be it in reviews or fora discussions.

No idea why some defend the X1 as their flock was physically attacked. It is an excellent camera, as said before. But the question was whether a X1 was as fast as a M9 (or any M for that matter) for ZF, and it is not. End of story.

Edited by Ecaton
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I still don't see a lag. Unless you are talking imperceivables mine is instant.

 

"The X1's shutter response is not instantaneous." This is what Luminous Landscape said about the X1 in their field review. And my X1 behaves the same way.;)

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I've never understood how people can argue about a camera. The X1 is a small camera that is capable of very rich files. I think that has been proven by the many wonderful photographs that have been taken with it.

 

That said, a good camera isn't any good if it doesn't fit the photographer's style and needs. While the X1 might fit one guy perfectly for street photography, it might really frustrate another. That doesn't mean the X1 is garbage. That also doesn't mean the photographer that doesn't like it is either...

 

To me, the most important aspect of creating photographs is the photographer. And a big part of that equation is the relationship that photographer has with his tools.

 

Some folks mesh with the X1. Others don't.

 

I think the mature thing to do is to just leave it at that.

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Sadly Peter the X1 forum has to be the worst in the entire forum.

 

And that happened from the get-go.

 

But this forum is still better than many other camera forums in terms of info you can get, although we need to do a lot of sieving amidst all that noise.

 

And for a niche camera like the X1 I think it is the only forum around.

 

CJ

Edited by phancj
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I understand your thinking peteraitch. Most of times I come to this forum I get disappointed, comments are more or less always the same and many have a negative atmosphere. I m user of both, x1 and rf cameras (again both Leica and Voitglander).

I use my Nikon FM2 when I need to shoot short distance or other cameras depending on the tech. requirement for the shot or my mood. Each camera has pro and contra. It is the capacity of the photographer to choice the correct tool and use it at the best of the possibility.

Complaining, complaining and complaining again does not help.

Is there a possibility to give a more positive contribution to this subforum? I'm not sure, but I' think about.

robert, satisfied user of the X1 :)

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I'm not sure what this thread is about anymore, but I would just like to say that my X1 in manual focus mode, set at f8, is brilliant.

 

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Nope.

 

It is about the X1 being an amazing street photography machine.

 

Shutter sound, tiny size, are all relevant in this discussion.

 

CJ

 

Well, only the Ms are amazing street cameras:

Yesterday I took one X1 to take soe pics. The scene was a bit difficult because one had to lock exposure in infinity and then take the shot in 2-3 meters subject. Turns out you can't do this as easily as you can on an M of course, where you just point where you want, lock exposure and then readjust focusing by turning the lens ring.

And all these features like multipoint AF, face detection and all that were invented to probably solve that issue, which has been solved in a much more elegant and simple way on every M camera. Sometimes you just can't tell what you miss.

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Well, only the Ms are amazing street cameras:

Yesterday I took one X1 to take soe pics. The scene was a bit difficult because one had to lock exposure in infinity and then take the shot in 2-3 meters subject. Turns out you can't do this as easily as you can on an M of course, where you just point where you want, lock exposure and then readjust focusing by turning the lens ring.

And all these features like multipoint AF, face detection and all that were invented to probably solve that issue, which has been solved in a much more elegant and simple way on every M camera. Sometimes you just can't tell what you miss.

 

I find AF in the X1 a BIG plus over the lack of it in a M. It is one of the biggest reason why I didnt buy the M9. AF is much more convenient for me.

 

As for street shooting I think the X1 is easier for me too, set before hand and shoot from hip. of course I understand you are used to an M and so with your experience in using the M and going to the X1 you will find difficulties, likewise for me when I use the M.

 

All I can say is end of the day we all choose the tools to suit our needs, and I say the AF in the X1 is dead on accurate. having tried the M9 several times all I can say is I am much faster with the X1 if I am going to do any focus. AF will beat manual focus anytime, though I understand your needs and experience may differ from mine.

 

Shooting with the Ms to me at least is a very CONSIDERED venture. Nice to take things slow and anticipate the action. The X1's AF allows me to shoot multiple shots much more quickly, and every shot in focus even wide open.

 

And lets not get into the argument of less frames vs fast shooting, art and skill of photography, etc,etc.

 

The x1 has BOTH AF and a nice MF (revised firmware) that even displays the exact depth in focus by virtue of the "green bar". I find that a very neat feature. With the M you are stuck to only using MF exclusively and after several dozen successive focusing and shooting my eyes quickly got tired. With the X1 I just aim, frame and the AF takes care of everything.

 

To each his own.

 

CJ

Edited by phancj
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Just try reading your own post then tell me you're not moaning

You're just another M user who can't accept there's something else out there with a little red dot on it that does a great job.

 

Peter, do you own/can afford one M8/9? I am, and since I own both M8 AND X1, I can make direct comparisons. Well, if you want the short version, then this is that at least for manual, only an M is really capable. Don't give me the treatment of rubbish generalizations since I always admired the X1 as very special. After all I bought it...

Now, go buy an M and then tell me if your precious X is better

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Diogenis,

 

The M8 isnt really that expensive now, is it? :)

 

Like I said, you are probably more uses to an M while Peter more to the X1, hence the variance in both of your experiences with it.

 

I have been using AF on DSLRs (and before that AF on Nikon SLRs, though I used manual only for macro shots) and coming to the X1 I feel that it was a easy transition for me. Whilst trying out the M8 and M9 it was immediately evident that the lack of AF is a serious drawback TO ME, and I am able to take less shots, and every shot requires a different and IMO more lengthy consideration compared to the X1 which is more casual and fun. There's no right or wrong and some will consider the M much more "serious" or "professional" simply because there's more work involved but to each his own.

 

It's funny coz I spoke to a former avid X1 user who switched to the M8 and asked for his experience (whilst still deciding on whether i buy the M9) and he specifically advised me that whilst the M8 takes better LOW ISO shots, the whole process is very considered, very important to watch the exposure, and he still sometimes bungles up due to some settings/parameters oversight. He also explains that this whole process is fun, and I can understand and respect that philosophy, though personally I like photography to be more casual and LESS considered.

 

In the back of my mind I know I'll end up with an M9/10 (Yes, many here can afford it it's a matter of priority) though I am certain I'll buy a D4/D800 before that. The lack of AF is IMO not enough to offset its smaller size for me.

 

CJ

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Diogenis,

 

The M8 isnt really that expensive now, is it? :)

 

Like I said, you are probably more uses to an M while Peter more to the X1, hence the variance in both of your experiences with it.

 

I have been using AF on DSLRs (and before that AF on Nikon SLRs, though I used manual only for macro shots) and coming to the X1 I feel that it was a easy transition for me. Whilst trying out the M8 and M9 it was immediately evident that the lack of AF is a serious drawback TO ME, and I am able to take less shots, and every shot requires a different and IMO more lengthy consideration compared to the X1 which is more casual and fun. There's no right or wrong and some will consider the M much more "serious" or "professional" simply because there's more work involved but to each his own.

 

It's funny coz I spoke to a former avid X1 user who switched to the M8 and asked for his experience (whilst still deciding on whether i buy the M9) and he specifically advised me that whilst the M8 takes better LOW ISO shots, the whole process is very considered, very important to watch the exposure, and he still sometimes bungles up due to some settings/parameters oversight. He also explains that this whole process is fun, and I can understand and respect that philosophy, though personally I like photography to be more casual and LESS considered.

 

In the back of my mind I know I'll end up with an M9/10 (Yes, many here can afford it it's a matter of priority) though I am certain I'll buy a D4/D800 before that. The lack of AF is IMO not enough to offset its smaller size for me.

 

CJ

 

CJ, the X1 is what it is. There are some objective limitations that are apparent when you use one, and these mostly involve manual focusing as is done with the included lcd screen. An M also has some design limitations as does any photographic camera ever made. Speaking objectively, if I would have to compare one M camera with one dslr or even an X1, I would say that the M is much much simpler than the rest. There is a learning cycle involved with them yes, but this can also be said for every consumer product that you use.

Of course the latest firmware did a great job to the camera, which is now capable of using it for zonefocusing (before, it simply wasn't). AF is also a bit faster than it used to be and trying in MF is now more precise but I find MF very difficult to use.

As for your future purchase, MF of an M is amazingly easy and incredibly fast. Yes, the camera demands you to think before you shoot, but fortunately, our mind is faster than messing with elaborate menus or other difficulties.

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I would agree with almost everything you said except the M being "incredibly fast" Sorry, but it cannot be faster than AF, slow or not. I find focusing in the RF nice and bright but not blazing fast for sure, especially so when you have spent some time shooting it can be tiring. IMO AF is almost always faster than MF, no matter what others try to tell me otherwise. RF focusing requires very deft concentration and quick reflexes to find parts of the objects to match and in certain situations can be slow, not to say some cannot be very fast but you cannot beat electronics I am afraid. And since I havent owned RF cameras before I have no experience it makes the learning curve that much more tedious. Try to see how many RF cameras are being sold compared to AF cameras and you get the picture I am definitely not alone in my thinking.

 

Having said that I havent ruled out the M9 yet, just that my priority is to upgrade my nikon since I got some lux oops sorry nikkor 1.4s. They are very very good lenses, with AF to match.:)

 

The noctilux though is so intriguing and out of this world, it is something I desire to own right now but am worried it may be just a passing infatuation....:D

 

CJ

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I would agree with almost everything you said except the M being "incredibly fast" Sorry, but it cannot be faster than AF, slow or not.

 

And since I havent owned RF cameras before I have no experience it makes the learning curve that much more tedious.

 

You like the X1, that's obvious, CJ, but the above statements are interesting.

 

In MY experience, focusing with a rangefinder is always faster than using an X1, but I haven't tried FW2.0. So, that's why I wouldn't make a definitive statement that an X1 is better. I think that you need to be careful in making definitive statements such as the first quote above.

 

To be honest, this thread has now turned into a "My X1 is better than your Mx" thread, which is never a good place to be for a harmonious forum.

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You like the X1, that's obvious, CJ, but the above statements are interesting.

 

In MY experience, focusing with a rangefinder is always faster than using an X1, but I haven't tried FW2.0. So, that's why I wouldn't make a definitive statement that an X1 is better. I think that you need to be careful in making definitive statements such as the first quote above.

 

To be honest, this thread has now turned into a "My X1 is better than your Mx" thread, which is never a good place to be for a harmonious forum.

 

Eh...Andy, I do not think that anything I said above says the X1 is the best of all, I am just saying from experience that FOR ME AF is the real deal, others' experience may vary. My reply was to diogenis who said the Ms are "incredibly fast"thats just not true IMO. One can be really quick and deft with loads of experience but having tried the RF focusing I cannot honestly believe it to be blazing fast compared to any AF. Really. After successive shots there's a limit to human capability when fatigues sets in, particularly when we're all getting older haha..

 

For some this may turn into a "vs" thread but thats just not my intention, at least not right now. Just my honest response to something said. And I am still in a looonnggg consideration with the M.:)

 

Andy, I cannot see how ANY of my above posts can be detrimental to the harmonious forum, and I have also tried to phrase my posts euphemistically to preserve that very harmony!

 

 

CJ

Edited by phancj
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The whole point is that this whole thread is just full of personal experience and opinion. None of it is necessarily fact.

 

An M IS very fast for a lot of people. An X1 IS incredibly slow for a lot of people. Both are facts. But these facts may not mirror your experience.

 

It really isn't worth getting into an argument about. So please don't.

Edited by andybarton
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