Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 30, 2007 Share #21 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I personaly feel the whilbal cards or that method is the best approch overall not that the expodisc won't work but if you go in and use that shot from the expodisc that is all you see , with the WhilBal card at least you see some subject matter and can fine tune that one image than apply that to the rest. Really the technique using it is so fast camera to eye ready to shoot something with left hand just put in front of you facing camera shoot than pull it out of the frame and keep shooting instead of putting something on and off . these cards do NOT have to be in focus either.So Ifind them easier to work with. Â Well Nikon and Canon see things differently also. Always been the word from many moons ago Nikon cool Canon warm. This is mainly there lenses and Sigma really warm. Zeiss cool leica warm . This debate or analogy of them has been around for decades and it is true . lenses have certain looks to them. So yes you may have been a little brainwashed with the nikons becuase they are cooler looking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here By request: white balancing your M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Hans Roggen Posted January 30, 2007 Share #22 Â Posted January 30, 2007 For anyone who speaks dutch: white balance cards for a fraction of the cost of a WhiBal. Â http://www.focusfx.nl/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 30, 2007 Share #23 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Also I bought one made by leica Microsystems on e-bay , maybe google search or look at microscope companies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share #24 Â Posted January 30, 2007 @ Woody--yeah you don't have to have the "right size" Expodisc at all. You do need one larger than your largest lens. Don't know about the Expocap... Â @ Guy--I also find using the WhiBal the best and easiest thing to use. I like it over other grey cards because it actually stands up to the abuse I heap on it at most weddings. Â FWIW, I find the custom WB on the M8 very good though, and since AWB is not so hot, setting it--even if I end up tweaking in RAW--really does reduce my post processing significantly, and if you're going to deviate (usually warmer) then it helps to have neutral first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemayeux Posted January 30, 2007 Share #25 Â Posted January 30, 2007 I've read many of these posts about the white balance. Like a previous poster commented I like the white balance of the M8 after tweaking in C1. I've not had to adjust the WB when processing a raw file any more with the M8 than I did with my 5D. I don't have any of the IR filters, but so far everything I have shot outdoors has been eyepopping. I'm not looking for a perfect rendition of the scene, just one that looks good in print. Kodachrome, my favorite color film, did not always render the scene accurately, but the color, when properly exposed, still looked great; something I find to be the case with the M8 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share #26 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Paul--yeah, the M8 is pretty good outdoors. Not neutral, but pretty good. If you're into chrome type colours, then it's probably good enough. Â It's wayyy worse, though, in mixed or tungsten light. The 5d is currently a million miles ahead of the current fw M8 under those conditions--but even it is not accurate, because it can't always be... Â In those cases you just can't rely on the auto WB in the camera, IMO, even to get you in the ballpark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted January 30, 2007 Share #27 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) . . . . . . I found the results using the Expodisc a little bit to neutral - . . There is also the Integrated Color Gel Card, which is expensive but works as advertised, if you want to vary your white balance warmer or cooler: Â ColorEyesâ„¢ GelCard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted January 30, 2007 Share #28  Posted January 30, 2007 Thanks, Guy! You know, I used to think that the incident WB using the expodisc was the "most infallible" method ... but now I think that you're correct, that having an exposure with a WB card in it, and eyedroppering that with post-processing software is "better" in the sense that it's more reliable.  I agree about the subjective "preferences" about WB in general; looks like accurate WB may not always be the most pleasing.  That said, I have always "liked" the auto white balancing that my Nikon D2X camera produces - does this mean that my Nikon camera has "brainwashed" (or "whitewashed") me into liking its WB? and that when I see a different scene tone, my brain is saying "whoa, man this isn't a Nikon white-balanced scene, so something's wrong?  Maybe I'm Japanese-camera brainwashed and whitewashed, such that I no longer prefer the M8's manual white balancing for scenics .... I haven't experimented as much with skin tones as have you, Guy.  DH I have tried all the mentioned WB alternatives in a variety of lighting situations. The issue with the AWB is that it can easily be fooled and the results , while excellent in some situations, are not consistent making the initial review ..well sort of a mess..... If the light is consistent ...like a sporting event, a portrait session ..then a single WB applied across the entire shoot...works great. Its when you are street shooting and the light is changing..this is when a decent AWB would be nice. Until then I hang an Expo disc( for setting a manual WB) and a Whibal card(for adjustments in Lightroom) around my neck and use them frequently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoelscher Posted January 31, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted January 31, 2007 Roger (as well Sean and Guy), Â What about the issue of cyan drift with a 486 filter? If you didn't have the WhiBal card exactly in the center of the frame, wouldn't your white balance be too cyan to a certain degree ???? Â In other words, can we only use a WhiBal card with a lens longer than 35mm with a 486 filter attached ??????? Â Â Â Yikes, Â DH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share #30 Â Posted January 31, 2007 David-- Â I've used a grey card (small WhiBal) with the 24mm and a 486 IR cut filter (the only one I've got, but at least I've got one now!). It's not a problem; I just stick it very close to the lens and shoot. It doesn't have to be in focus, just more or less properly exposed under the target light. Â Sampling from the middle of the shot avoids unnecesary cyan shift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted January 31, 2007 Share #31 Â Posted January 31, 2007 Wow, it is real great to talk on this WB topic (in the midst of various current M8 electronic issues, well, it's nevertheless not the pure mechanical Ms), which practically helping each of us to make better pictures. Â Jamie and Guy, simply praise on all your initative here helping us to materialize M8's potential. I'll now seriously looking into the Expodisc. Â dratt, from Expodisc's website. It said that the warmer version will result in pictures ~200 deg higher in color temperature when shoting at 3200k. Â BTW, after some study on color temperatures, I'm now nailing in an Kelvin temperature by my own subjective vision. I'm pleased that first nail hits ~75%. When the difficult lighting comes, I miss my old D2 with its ingenious liveview WB adjustment control. Â Who said there should be a discussion in Solms boardroom whether they should co-build M8 or future M / R digitals with Panasonic ! =) Â Cheers Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted January 31, 2007 Share #32 Â Posted January 31, 2007 Does anyboy got the answer why the direct DNGs loaded off from M8 are consistently warmer than their JPEG counterparts, some 300K - 500K warmer in my observation? Â In other words, if one prefer to work with JPEG as their basic outputs, he has to adjust his DNGs in post-processing or vice versa. Â Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted January 31, 2007 Share #33  Posted January 31, 2007 Roger (as well Sean and Guy), What about the issue of cyan drift with a 486 filter? If you didn't have the WhiBal card exactly in the center of the frame, wouldn't your white balance be too cyan to a certain degree ????  In other words, can we only use a WhiBal card with a lens longer than 35mm with a 486 filter attached ???????    Yikes,  DH Initially I tried to use the Whibal to set the manual WB(as the target) but ran into exactly the problem you mention..if you use it as a target it must be positioned to catch the light and fill the frame. The Expodisc is used like an incident meter ..point it at the light source..I use a 77mm version and hand hold it over the lens and shade. This is easy and works great. The Whibal is used by holding it at arms length and including it in the picture . This allows you to check the WB in you Raw processor against the Whibal. If the light is consistent this is overkill ..but if its changing during your shoot than it helps. My objective is to get it right as early in the process as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2007 Share #34  Posted January 31, 2007 Wow, it is real great to talk on this WB topic (in the midst of various current M8 electronic issues, well, it's nevertheless not the pure mechanical Ms), which practically helping each of us to make better pictures. Jamie and Guy, simply praise on all your initative here helping us to materialize M8's potential. I'll now seriously looking into the Expodisc.  dratt, from Expodisc's website. It said that the warmer version will result in pictures ~200 deg higher in color temperature when shoting at 3200k.  BTW, after some study on color temperatures, I'm now nailing in an Kelvin temperature by my own subjective vision. I'm pleased that first nail hits ~75%. When the difficult lighting comes, I miss my old D2 with its ingenious liveview WB adjustment control.  Who said there should be a discussion in Solms boardroom whether they should co-build M8 or future M / R digitals with Panasonic ! =)  Cheers Matthew  Matthew not so sure i would buy a warmer version of the Expodisc for several reasons. First of all you can do this very easily in almost any raw program just move the Color temp down to make it warmer. Also your stuck at that warmer setting right off the bat and maybe you don't always want to do that. Than three the M8 and DMR are already a touch warm because of the Kodak sensor which has a tendency to be about 100 to 200 kelvin warmer. Which I like. i notice this when i am shooting under Profoto lighting which the color temp is dead on but in C1 when i hit the Whil Bal card it gets about 100 to 200 kelvin. So it really is already there plus this part is just easy to adjust in any of the raw programs. Sometimes it maybe very critical to be dead on so i would just get a neutral one. Something to consider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2007 Share #35  Posted January 31, 2007 Does anyboy got the answer why the direct DNGs loaded off from M8 are consistently warmer than their JPEG counterparts, some 300K - 500K warmer in my observation? In other words, if one prefer to work with JPEG as their basic outputs, he has to adjust his DNGs in post-processing or vice versa.  Best Matthew   I think I just answered this but in raw the kodak sensor is a touch warmer , jpeg's are in camera processing and have a certain algorthymn ( spelled wrong I'm sure) that they go by. Now Canon, Nikon and Leica all do this a bit different and there really is no set standard. One maybe cooler than the other or warmer so it really depends on what each company sets up as there standard. This is one reason i don't shoot jpeg because your stuck by what they consider standard both in processing, sharpening and contrast. Not that it is bad but it is what it is and you can't change some of it. Raw gives you complete control . So to answer your question i am not surprised you see that and it is basically very normal to be like that.  Have fun check in late tonight , off to two big shoots today. One in the rain with the M8. Yikes. FDR open Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoelscher Posted January 31, 2007 Share #36 Â Posted January 31, 2007 Have fun on your shoots, Guy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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