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Summitar collapses safely into M9!


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YES!

 

Leica says that the Elmar-M can safely be collapsed in the M9, and I have been collapsing mine without any problem.

 

So I compared the Elmar-M and the Summitar (SM, with an M ring). The diameter of the inner end of both lens tubes seems to be the same. The collapsed Summitar does not penetrate as deeply into the body as the Elmar-M. So I tried it, and the M9 came through unscated!

 

So, yes, the Summitar can be collapsed safely into the M9. Of course, always mount and dismount all collapsible lenses extended.

 

Guy

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So, yes, the Summitar can be collapsed safely into the M9. Of course, always mount and dismount all collapsible lenses extended.

 

Leica's M9 instructions warn against collapsing lenses into the body.

 

All Summitars are not alike.

 

My Summitar does not collapse into the M9 body.

 

Let's be careful of generalizations.

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I have a 1946 Summitar that collapses into the body without a problem. Like you measured it more out of interest than worry because it is clearly shallower than the Elmar M, and we know that collapses without any problems.

 

From the mounting flange to the fully collapsed end of the lens the Elmar is approx. 20.27mm deep and from the M adapter flange to the fully collapsed end of the Summitar lens its only 16mm. So there is 4.75mm additional clearance with the Summitar that should encourage anybody to try one, its a lovely fun lens with many quirky character traits, but very sharp when it counts. I doubt that the mechanical side of Summitar design fundamentally changed (at all), but if it did it would need to be a massive re-design to gain an additional 4.75mm on the back end. And even then it would only be as deep as an Elmar.

 

As an additional note. The M9 lens mount to shutter surround (the body casting which would probably stop most lens going further) is approx. 22.25mm deep. Which means there is already a massive 1.5mm gap that separates the back end of the Elmar from the body casting. Overall depth to the actual shutter is approx. 25mm.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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surely distance of film from the flange in old Ms is the same as sensor from the flange in new Ms... so all bayonet lenses can collapse... just do not attach them or remove them in collapsed position

 

sensors are easily damaged as opposed to film (also protected by the shutter)

 

Leica is, I guess, just making sure we use our senses

 

... or did I got something wrong?

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surely distance of film from the flange in old Ms is the same as sensor from the flange in new Ms... so all bayonet lenses can collapse... just do not attach them or remove them in collapsed position

 

sensors are easily damaged as opposed to film (also protected by the shutter)

 

Leica is, I guess, just making sure we use our senses

 

... or did I got something wrong?

 

Actually, it's the distance from the flange to the shutter and the shape of the opening in front of the shutter that matter. But you are right: ALWAYS mount and dismount the lenses extended.

 

Guy

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surely distance of film from the flange in old Ms is the same as sensor from the flange in new Ms... so all bayonet lenses can collapse... just do not attach them or remove them in collapsed position

 

sensors are easily damaged as opposed to film (also protected by the shutter)

 

Leica is, I guess, just making sure we use our senses

 

... or did I got something wrong?

The old Elmars have a rather sharp three-lug ring at the back. Leica is surely not talking about the length of the lenses, but about the chance of scratching the inside of the camera.
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I think you are right Jaap.

 

Even if you try to put the lens into the camera body fully collapsed and at a 45 degree angle I can't see how the rear element can reach the shutter. Simple geometry means its impossible because the mounting flange touches the body bayonet ring long before anything gets dangerous.

 

Steve

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Re: Elmar-M - SN 3668xxx onwards are safe according to Leica customer service. I'd be very careful with earlier examples.

 

If it saves people from wasting a good lens that they could use on their M9 you don't need to be very careful at all, if in doubt you just need to measure how deep the lens is when its collapsed. If its less than 22mm its fine.

 

Steve

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....surely distance of film from the flange in old Ms is the same as sensor from the flange in new Ms... so all bayonet lenses can collapse... just do not attach them or remove them in collapsed position

 

......

 

I just sold a collapsing 90mm M mount Elmar f:4.0. It collapsed only part way into the M9, much less than it collapsed into the M4 the buyer showed up with. Judging by the light mark it made in the M9, It is obstructed by the flat, horizontal flange at the bottom of the body cavity, 1/2inch deeper than the lens/body mating surface. That flat flange is part of the housing for the meter sensor. In effect, the older Ms have a larger cavity at the bottom. Careful! 2 pics attached, of M9 and M4

 

Larry

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Edited by likalar
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I just sold a collapsing 90mm M mount Elmar f:4.0. It collapsed only part way into the M9, much less than it collapsed into the M4 the buyer showed up with. Judging by the light mark it made in the M9, It is obstructed by the flat, horizontal flange at the bottom of the body cavity, 1/2inch deeper than the lens/body mating surface. That flat flange is part of the housing for the meter sensor. In effect, the older Ms have a larger cavity at the bottom. Careful! 2 pics attached, of M9 and M4

 

Larry

 

Would that be the reason it says on page 110 of the English Manual 'Important - Cannot be used - retractable Elmar 90mm f4' (amongst others)?

 

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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Would that be the reason it says on page 110 of the English Manual 'Important - Cannot be used - retractable Elmar 90mm f4' (amongst others)?

 

 

Steve

 

Steve, I guess that would be the reason. I posted the photos because of the statement made in post #8 "... so all bayonet lenses can collapse..." I think many of the people on this thread, or those reading it, are referring to the length of the lens, collapsed, being the deciding factor, when actually there are additional factors. I'm glad you found it useful (or maybe that was sarcasm?). Hopefully it was helpful.

 

Larry

Edited by likalar
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pico,

 

That is interresting. The Summilux lens serial number database dates my Summitar, sn 792xxx to 1950. It is a 10 diaphragm blades version. What about yours?

 

Guy

 

My Summitar is 669xxx from 1948 and has 10 diaphragm blades as well.

 

Mine imposed upon the same point that Larry posted.

Edited by pico
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My Summitar is 669xxx from 1948 and has 10 diaphragm blades as well.

 

Mine imposed upon the same point that Larry posted.

 

Well OK that is worrying. Can you measure the depth of the lens when collapsed from the bayonet adapter to the rearmost part of the lens tube and report back?

 

Steve

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What about the summicron 5cm collapsible?

 

The tube of the Summicron is the shortest of all collapsible lenses (before the Makro-Elmar), so it protudes least into the body. You can find some measurements of collapsible lenses - especially the Summitar in this thread:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102865-screwmount-elmar-50mm-m9.html#post1086292

 

Besides the old collapsible 4/90mm Elmar I should certainly rule out the 2.5/5cm Hektor for collapsing in a digital M, for the tube measures more than 22mm, which I call the very limit. The Hektor already hit the shields for the shutter of a Leica II.

 

If you don't use the Hektor (who does???), take care, that you only fix or loosen the lens, when it is not collapsed.

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Here your have a 1951 Elmar with CV adapter beside an Elmar- M

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