3-CAM?

[k-hawinkler]

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In "Leica APO-Telyt-R 180mm f/3.4 3-CAM", was does 3-CAM or 1-, 2-CAM indicate?

 

Thanks, K-H.

[gvaliquette]

It's an old question...

It refers to the coupling transmitting maximum aperture and current aperture from the lens to the camera body, and dictates which camera body/bodies the lens can be used on:

 

1-cam: Leicaflex (with the external, non-TTL) meter, only.

 

2-cam: Leicaflex and Leicaflex SL and SL2

 

3-cam: Leicaflex, Leicaflex SL and SL2 and Leica R (R3 to R9)

 

3rd-cam: Leica R, NOT Leicaflex or Leicaflex SL or SL2

 

Note also that some lenses can be used on the Leicaflex SL2 and Leica R but NOT on the SL due to different mirror clearances.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Guy

[gvaliquette]

K-H:

 

By the way, with some 900+ posts, don't you know this yet???

 

Guy

[k-hawinkler]

K-H:

 

By the way, with some 900+ posts, don't you know this yet???

 

Guy

 

 

Hi Guy,

 

Many thanks. No I don"t.

So far I was interested in using M- and V-lenses on M9 and Nikon D3.

But maybe I should add a modified R-lens for my D3.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Best, K-H.

[ho_co]

By the way, with some 900+ posts, don't you know this yet???

He's been spending those posts straightening the rest of us out.

 

Thanks for the clear explanation, Guy. My knowledge of the R is also weak.

 

Where does ROM fit into the mix? Could all lenses be fitted with the ROM updates? Did they have to be 3-cam or R-cam only?

 

Have I read that putting a ROM lens onto some particular camera (pre-R perhaps?) could damage the lens? Or the camera?

 

Thanks!

[gvaliquette]

...

 

Where does ROM fit into the mix? Could all lenses be fitted with the ROM updates? Did they have to be 3-cam or R-cam only?

 

Have I read that putting a ROM lens onto some particular camera (pre-R perhaps?) could damage the lens? Or the camera?

 

...

 

The ROM lenses are for the R8 and R9, but can be used on any R camera, although without the benefits of the ROM. ROM lenses also have the 3rd-CAM, which allows them to be mounted on R bodies. They CANNOT be used on the Leicaflexes and attempting to mount them on a Leicaflex will damage the lens and the camera. The ROM transfers additional information to the body, but the main advantage is to have the lens and its aperture settings in the EXIF data on the DMR. Supposedly, the ROM also transmits the diaphragm closure speed to the body, thereby reducing shutter latency, but I never noticed any differences between my ROM lenses and my 3-CAM or 3rd-CAM lenses.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Guy

[gvaliquette]

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...

 

Could all lenses be fitted with the ROM updates?

 

...

 

Sorry, I forgot that piece in my response. Leica told me, when I enquired a few years ago, that they can "ROM" a 3-CAM or 3rd-CAM lens, but that ROMing a 1-CAM or 2-CAM is a much more involved, read more expensive, job. I never bothered to do it.

 

Guy

[wildlightphoto]

Where does ROM fit into the mix? Could all lenses be fitted with the ROM updates? Did they have to be 3-cam or R-cam only?

 

Not all lenses can be fitted with the ROM. The pre-APO 90mm Summicron-R doesn't have space, and retrofitting 1-cam lenses is prohibitively expensive.

 

Have I read that putting a ROM lens onto some particular camera (pre-R perhaps?) could damage the lens? Or the camera?

 

The ROM contacts occupy the space where the first cam would have been, so if a ROM lens were put on a body that uses the first cam, the ROM contacts would be damaged by the body's cam follower. These bodies are the Leicaflex (original) and the Leicaflex SL2. The Leicaflex SL doesn't have this problem but to prevent mounting a ROM lens on the Leicaflex or SL2, all ROM lenses have an R-only bayonet flange.

 

With slight modification to the SL's bayonet flange many R-only lenses can be fitted (there are still mirror box restrictions) and by adding the second metering cam to a ROM lens, the lens can be used on a modified SL with full function and no loss of function when using the lens on any R body. I've had my SL modified to use ROM lenses and have had the second cam added to my 180mm f/2.8 APO ROM and they work together perfectly.

[ho_co]

Thanks, Guy and Doug! I got out of touch with the R system some thirty years ago and appreciate the information. Your explanation is clear and direct, and what you depict is what I knew should be the case, namely a clear and continuous forward development without obsoleting earlier designs.

 

I attended a local photo get-together maybe ten years ago, where I heard a Nikon user mention, "The trouble with Leica is, they keep changing their mount."

 

I almost choked on the food I was eating, but couldn't answer because I didn't have the details to contradict him.

 

I guess it's all what you're used to, but in his mind, Nikon(!) seemed to have made fewer mount changes than Leica.

 

 

Now where is the R10?

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks for all the explanations about 1-, 2-, 3-CAM, 3-rd CAM, and ROM (for R8, R9, and with included 3rd-CAM on all R cameras).

So, I am getting a LEICA R APO-TELYT 280mm f4 R CAM only, so not ROM, but with a full 12 months Leica Solms warranty.

I have no intention on using this lens on any of the currently existing Leica R cameras, but likely with a future R-compatible Leica camera if available.

 

I would like to use the lens however, on Nikon and Sony NEX cameras.

I am also interested in using this lens with the Leica APO Extender-R 1.4x and 2x.

I am aware that in order to use the extenders (or lens) on Nikon cameras one needs to replace the bayonet.

Leitax recommends to use the 1.4x and 2x Leica APO Extender-R; so not the ROM version as that requires a much more involved conversion.

 

So, it doesn't make sense to me to convert the 280/4 as I would like to continue to use that lens on the Extenders.

However, converting the extenders to the Nikon mount, lets one use them on Nikon cameras and with an Nikon Lens to Sony Alpha Nex E-mount adapter on the NEX cameras.

Of course, one could also get a second set of unmodified extenders and use them on NEX cameras with an Leica R Lens to Sony Alpha Nex E-mount adapter.

These extenders would also be useful for a possible future R-compatible Leica camera.

 

Questions:

 

What's the difference between R CAM and R ROM devices? What gets transmitted or controlled?

Can both types of extenders support all the same lenses? What are the differences in subsequent generations?

Can one use an RCAM lens on an R ROM extender? And vice versa?

I presume the 280/4 lens has manual focus only but diaphragm control on some R cameras.

On my planned systems I have to set the aperture manually, right?

 

Thanks for your help in answering my questions.

 

Best, K-H.

[jaapv]

I had contact with Leitax. One cannot change the female mounts on the extenders. As soon as you Leitax your ApoTelyt you must use it with Nikon converters.

[k-hawinkler]

I had contact with Leitax. One cannot change the female mounts on the extenders. As soon as you Leitax your ApoTelyt you must use it with Nikon converters.

 

 

Jaap,

 

Thanks. Correct.

 

That's why I only want to convert the 1.4x and 2x Leica APO Extender-R and not the 280/4.

So, I can't use the 280/4 directly on my NIkons, only via extenders. That's fine.

But I can use the 280/4 directly via adapter on a NEX.

This also will keep my options open if there ever is a Leica R solution.

To buy a second set of unmodified Leica APO extenders is not the end of the world.

 

I have all three Nikon 2-nd generation Teleconverters, i,e, 1.4x, 1.7x, and 2x.

But they degrade image quality too much for my taste. The 2x certainly has a very noticeable effect.

 

There is a 3-rd generation Nikon Teleconverter 2x that I haven't tried and don't plan to do so in the near future.

 

Thanks again, best K-H.

[jaapv]

Yes, I have been thinking in similar terms. However, I have a feeling that 2012 will be a key year in the direction Leica will be taking with the APS camera and M10 with maybe EVF add-on coming up. I am putting off any purchases in the R system until that is clear

[k-hawinkler]

Jaap,

 

Thanks. I agree. Good idea. I understand you have some Leica R gear and lots of experience.

In contrast, I have never touched an Leica R thing. So I need to get started.

I don't plan on spending a lot of money on Leica R stuff right now.

 

Best, K-H.

[michali]

I had contact with Leitax. One cannot change the female mounts on the extenders. As soon as you Leitax your ApoTelyt you must use it with Nikon converters.

 

Jaap it is possible, however it requires some one-way "surgery".

 

I may be shooting in the dark here or maybe misunderstood the original question re extenders. I was told the same about not being able to change the female mount on my 1.4X R converter and wasn't pleased about that.

 

FWIW here's what I managed to do with success:

Lens:

Converted my Leica APO-TELYT-R 280mm ƒ/4.0 to Sony Alpha mount with a Letax mount.

 

Extender:

Replaced the male mount on the APO R 1.4X extender with a Leitax Alpha mount to fit the Sony 850.

After removing the female mount, using a Dremel tool I re-machined the female mount on the Leica APO 1.4X extender so that it now accepts the male Leitax Sony mount on the lens.

 

It all works perfectly. The conversion of the female mount on the 1.4X extender is a one way conversion however. Also worth noting that the R mount and the Alpha mount are not too dissimilar in layout.

The R female mount on the 1.4 extender needed some widening and skimming of 2 lugs which were stopping the lens from locking into position.

 

I've converted all my R lenses to Leitax Sony Alpha mounts for use on the Sony FF 850 DSLR: Elmarit R 19mm, V/E 28-90mm (this was a tricky one), APO Macro f2.8 100mm, V/E 105-280mm & APO-Telyt 280mm.

[k-hawinkler]

Mike,

 

Thanks. Interesting. So you basically bet on Sony cameras for the time being.

So except for the 1.4x extender, the other changes are reversible?

 

Best, K-H.

[jaapv]

Very interesting, Mike. I wonder if the Nikon mount would lend itself to the same surgery. Anyway, as I said, I am deferring any decisive steps until the second half of this year. On the other hand, I do have a feeling that if one wants to expand the R lens stable, now is the time. Should our hopes come true (and in a way the NEX7 is halfway that path already) that R lenses become easily usable on modern sensors prices will go up considerably.

[jaapv]

Sigma cameras will convert to R mount with focus confirmation. The problem there is that their most interesting camera is prohibitively expensive (APS-C in the 9000$ range?)

[michali]

Mike,

 

Thanks. Interesting. So you basically bet on Sony cameras for the time being.

So except for the 1.4x extender, the other changes are reversible?

 

Best, K-H.

 

K-H re Sony = yes IMO the Sony 850 is a very competitively priced full frame DSLR, it's controls very intuitive, high ISO performance isn't great above 800 ISO. However I've never been a high ISO user having been weaned on Kodachrome 25 for most of my life.

 

All the conversions are reversible. I've kept all the original R mounts and cams which I removed. At a push even the 1.4X extender is reversible, the modified female mount could be removed and replaced with an original R mount. On second thought I should probably get one as a spare.

 

I'm off to India this morning so no time to post pics of the conversion, however I'll try and post some as soon as I get a chance.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[michali]

Very interesting, Mike. I wonder if the Nikon mount would lend itself to the same surgery. Anyway, as I said, I am deferring any decisive steps until the second half of this year. On the other hand, I do have a feeling that if one wants to expand the R lens stable, now is the time. Should our hopes come true (and in a way the NEX7 is halfway that path already) that R lenses become easily usable on modern sensors prices will go up considerably.

 

It really depends on the layout of the Nikon mount, it was very fortunate that the Alpha mount layout wasn't too far off the R mount. It's probably prudent to wait as you say......

 

I use everything in full manual mode, focus and exposure, much prefer it this way anyway.