Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #1 Posted January 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Okay back to mental debate.I had the 90 apo briefly but was a titanium version an was heavy as a 18 wheeler so i sold it but never had the time to really test it against the 75 apo cron. So now I am having mental debate on these 2 focal lengths. I have my 28,50,80 R lenses on e-bay right now and will get a 28-90 to replace them but I lose my 80 lux so I may get the 75 lux in M and than maybe the 90 APO in M. Now the question of the day is the 90 APO the same quality of the 75 apo and the only difference size and weight and focal length or am i going to lose quality on the 90 apo. i ultimately want a soft lovely Lux look but than the clinical look of the cron. I need both folks and been having alternate thoughts. i have to forget about the size and weight stuff, the image is more important. What I have now is the 75 cron and 90 elmarit which i really like the 90 elmarit but it's 2.8 need more speed for this lens for events and podium work BTW I will apoligize in advance that I asked a question that probably has been asked a thousand times already. I normally never ask for help. Usally it is me helping soemone else . So i beg for forgiveness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here 75 apo VS 90 apo. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #2 Posted January 27, 2007 I think I found my answer here from Erwin which on lenses only i have faith in him. Testreport Apo-Summicron 2/90 ASPH Seems the 75 lux vs the 80 lux the 75 is a stop better in image quality. He rates the 90 APO M comparable to the 100 apo macro R which is saying something but very good at F2 which says a lot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidigital Posted January 27, 2007 Share #3 Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks for digging that up Guy. I'm going to start looking for a 90 also. I'd like to have the extra bit of length and the crispness from the 90 in the bag. It'd be a good 1-2 punch. Any wide open 90 apo photos on the M8 that others have and would like to share would be appreciated as I'd love to have a look. Anybody? Kurt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted January 27, 2007 Share #4 Posted January 27, 2007 In terms of functionality, the 75mm APO has a floating element and allows you to focus closer than the 90mm. In terms of image quality, I believe they are very close and if there's any diff, it is probably in the 5% range & so it becomes negligible to me. I'm not too sure about the focusing ability for both, though. Erwin seems to say it's easier to focus the 75mm. Seems like the 75mm is using the 50/75 frame lines on the M8 but I think they are both very small for an effective focusing without the magnifier. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M8; 90mm APO; @f2; ISO 160; no-IR filter; no-tripod; no-magifier (but bright light); no pulse ;^) M8; 90mm APO; @f2; ISO 160; no-IR filter; tripod; no-magifier (dim light but it was a pain focusing this) Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M8; 90mm APO; @f2; ISO 160; no-IR filter; no-tripod; no-magifier (but bright light); no pulse ;^) M8; 90mm APO; @f2; ISO 160; no-IR filter; tripod; no-magifier (dim light but it was a pain focusing this) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14567-75-apo-vs-90-apo/?do=findComment&comment=154204'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #5 Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks Arthur i do have the 1.25 on all the time so for me that works. What i found interesting was the 75 and 80 comments in the Lux . Shooting at 1.4 on the 75 better than the 80 is brining it home to me. I do like the fact that the 75 cron can focus close that maybe hard to give up. Focusing the 75 lux for me is a no brainer because i am used to that slow focus with the 80 and i did try it at a demo and that part was fine as was the Nocti. focusing as is not a big issue for me at least the long throw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 27, 2007 Share #6 Posted January 27, 2007 I thought about this same question earlier. Since I don't have my M8 yet to compare my 75mm to my 90mm, I went to the Leica web site and downloaded the pdf files on each lens and compared the MTF curves. The 90mm seems to have the flatter curve. For the M8, you are only interested out to about 17mm on the MTF charts because it is not full frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted January 27, 2007 Share #7 Posted January 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Guy, The APO 75 is the best M lens I have ever used, and I think it is comparable to my 180 Summicron. I have not used my APO 90 since it arrived. Also, it is smaller and lighter, focuses very smoothly, and for people photos on the M8 is a better focal length for me than the longer 90 mm lens. Here is E. Puts on the APO 75, http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/mseries/Sum275/s2-75.html Some of his comments, “At full aperture the lens delivers a very high contrast image with even performance from centre to the extreme corners. The resolution of 80 linepairs/mm from centre to edge is unsurpassed at this time of writing.....Stopping down to f/2.8 improves contrast and now the dip is gone completely. Resolving power reaches a value of more than 100 to 125 lp/mm over the whole image area. The image is of exceptional clarity and punch and the definition of extremely fine detail is outstandingly good. Stopping down further increases depth of field, and some crispening of the finest recordable detail, but this will be hardly visible outside the lab situation. In practical terms we may say that the lens can be used wide open with the utmost confidence and the images can be blown up to whatever size one wishes without fear for blurring the details. Pictures made at f/2 at medium distances around 4 to 6 meters deliver excellent imagery and when studying the level of recorded details, one cannot believe that these are made at an aperture f/2.....The definition of the unsharpness blur is quite smooth and lacks the harshess of some very high speed lenses...The Summicron 90mm is in the same class as the 75mm, but note the more pronounced curvature of field of the 90mm. At the most critical inspection of pictures made at aperture f/2 with the 75mm and the 90mm, one can note that the 75mm has a tighter grain structure, an indication that the residual aberrations are reduced to an even lower level.” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted January 27, 2007 Share #8 Posted January 27, 2007 Okay back to mental debate.I had the 90 apo briefly but was a titanium version an was heavy as a 18 wheeler so i sold it but never had the time to really test it against the 75 apo cron. So now I am having mental debate on these 2 focal lengths. I have my 28,50,80 R lenses on e-bay right now and will get a 28-90 to replace them but I lose my 80 lux so I may get the 75 lux in M and than maybe the 90 APO in M. Guy, The 90 Apo M is roughly the same formulation as 90 Apo R. However, on the M cameras it is much harder to focus than on the R; my experience being with the 90 on my M7. Even the black version is "heavy" by M standards, though. I guess the M8 at least lets you chimp shots. I suspect 75/2 and 90/2 will otherwise be very comparable in quality on the M8. LOL, let me know when you sell the 75/2, so I can add it to the Guy Mancuso Signature Collection, newly available in the M series (GMSC-M, for short). I think I have a 35-R and 280-R from the GMSC-R line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #9 Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks Jeff yes you do seem to have a little collection from me. This is not a easy call. maybe the thing to do is just get the 90 apo since i need a little extra from the 75 and a little more speed and just sell the 90 2.8 elmarit. Just have both the 75 and 90 crons. I really like the 75 cron ,no question about that. Maybe i can get a 75 lux from my Leica rep for a day to run the two 75's head to head and see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted January 27, 2007 Share #10 Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks Jeff yes you do seem to have a little collection from me. This is not a easy call. maybe the thing to do is just get the 90 apo since i need a little extra from the 75 and a little more speed and just sell the 90 2.8 elmarit. Just have both the 75 and 90 crons. I really like the 75 cron ,no question about that. Maybe i can get a 75 lux from my Leica rep for a day to run the two 75's head to head and see I understand, I'm contemplating making similar lineup changes, but I'm waiting on the M8 a bit longer. After being on the 1ds2 then DMR bleeding edges, I'll let others hemorrhage for me--and you're doing a great job! Unless my kids flunk out of school I can't afford to buy more lenses. email me if you sell the 90/2.8, I may buy it. I sold the 90 APO a year ago or so and have wanted to replace it with a 90/2.8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted January 27, 2007 Share #11 Posted January 27, 2007 Okay, time for my first photo post. Sorry if it doesn't work... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M8, 90mm APO, 1/60@f2.0, ISO 640, handheld, with magnifier. M8, 90mm APO, 1/60@f2.0, ISO 320, handheld with magnifier. I think the 90 is fantastically sharp, and find little handling difference between it and the current 90 elmart. For compact and light, I use the older thin 90 tele elmarit (small, but it isn't nearly as sharp at f2.8, and can flare quite a bit). The 90 APO on the M8 has revealed that I need more than a magnifier, I need a diopter. I'm typically focusing slightly behind the subject's eye. I've tested focus with the camera and lens, and it is okay---the depth of field at minimum distance and f2.0 seems like just a few centimeters. Real shooting distance, I think the diopter will make it work for me. This lens may make you feel old, though... The lens is too sharp for flattering photos of wrinkled skin, but it certainly can show character, and on a young person, can look very good. Clyde Rogers Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M8, 90mm APO, 1/60@f2.0, ISO 640, handheld, with magnifier. M8, 90mm APO, 1/60@f2.0, ISO 320, handheld with magnifier. I think the 90 is fantastically sharp, and find little handling difference between it and the current 90 elmart. For compact and light, I use the older thin 90 tele elmarit (small, but it isn't nearly as sharp at f2.8, and can flare quite a bit). The 90 APO on the M8 has revealed that I need more than a magnifier, I need a diopter. I'm typically focusing slightly behind the subject's eye. I've tested focus with the camera and lens, and it is okay---the depth of field at minimum distance and f2.0 seems like just a few centimeters. Real shooting distance, I think the diopter will make it work for me. This lens may make you feel old, though... The lens is too sharp for flattering photos of wrinkled skin, but it certainly can show character, and on a young person, can look very good. Clyde Rogers ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14567-75-apo-vs-90-apo/?do=findComment&comment=154257'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 27, 2007 Share #12 Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks Jeff yes you do seem to have a little collection from me. This is not a easy call. maybe the thing to do is just get the 90 apo since i need a little extra from the 75 and a little more speed and just sell the 90 2.8 elmarit. Just have both the 75 and 90 crons. I really like the 75 cron ,no question about that. Maybe i can get a 75 lux from my Leica rep for a day to run the two 75's head to head and see Don't do that, Guy! I mean echoing my thinking It is going to cost me money.... Only for 75 Summicron substitute the 75 Summilux. I think that is an ideal pair: 75 Summilux and 90 apo Summicron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #13 Posted January 27, 2007 Well I am going to at least get the 90 APO to start the ball rolling. Jeff may buy my 90 elmarit which helps the cause. I do need that speed in the 90 so it is really a must have ,although the damn 90 elmarit is very sweet and sharp. Than i may try and get the 75 lux and try a test between the 75's. Really have to go head to head to get the feel of the look your after with this focal length Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted January 27, 2007 Share #14 Posted January 27, 2007 Okay, time for my first photo post. Sorry if it doesn't work... The 90 APO on the M8 has revealed that I need more than a magnifier, I need a diopter. I'm typically focusing slightly behind the subject's eye. I've tested focus with the camera and lens, and it is okay---the depth of field at minimum distance and f2.0 seems like just a few centimeters. Real shooting distance, I think the diopter will make it work for me. This lens may make you feel old, though... The lens is too sharp for flattering photos of wrinkled skin, but it certainly can show character, and on a young person, can look very good. Clyde Rogers Clyde, Wooo hooo ... those are nice people images; especially, the little girl. Were they shot in RAW or JPG? The tones seems exceptionally smooth and almost grainless for ISO 640. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted January 27, 2007 Share #15 Posted January 27, 2007 Clyde, Wooo hooo ... those are nice people images; especially, the little girl. Were they shot in RAW or JPG? The tones seems exceptionally smooth and almost grainless for ISO 640. Thank you. The older gentleman was a raw, but the girl was actually a black and white jpg (it has been adjusted in PS---the light was too flat, but even after applying a curve it holds up on a print without posterizing). From what I've seen, the M8 jpg isn't great for busy fine details (like distant sharp foliage in a landscape---or maybe it is fine, but the DNG is just so much better). But I've been very happy with its out-of-camera black and white jpgs of people. I also have no clue why some folks complain about the M8 at higher ISO (and yes, I've compared it to my 5D). You're right, 640 is smooth and has only a very fine, beautiful grain that's barely visible on small prints, and is no problem on large prints. I don't hesitate to use 1250, and 2500 works for 10x15 inch black and white prints very well. Clyde Rogers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Branch Posted January 27, 2007 Share #16 Posted January 27, 2007 Guy, I have both the 90mm and 75mm Cron's. I always thought the 90mm a fantastic lens, really the first M lens I owned that I could use at full aperture without the slightest hesitation. Then I got the 75mm and it is even better - not a lot and you have to be very very careful about your technique - but it has higher contrast in the very fine detail. The MTF data supports this and also confirms that quite small differences in the MTF data are clearly visible under the right conditions. The devil in evaluating the images is the difference in DOF and magnification. In the real world one does not in general use different focal lengths and then adjust your subject distance to give equal image size. I, and I suspect almost everyone else, normally use a longer lens to give a larger image from the same viewpoint though with portraiture I do sometimes change focal length to give a different perspective. Critical evaluation under these conditions thus becomes quite difficult. In the past it was often pointed out that images taken with a 35mm lens appeared to be "better" than those taken with a 50mm lens simply because they contained more and finer detail. To a limited degree the same is true of the 75mm v 90mm - but the 75mm 'Cron is to my mind the best lens in the current range followed closely by the 135mm Apo-Telyt, the 90mm 'Cron ASPH and the 24mm Elmarit ASPH. Some distance behind these is the 35mm 'Cron ASPH, which whilst very good is not quite on the same level. The 50mm 'Cron is really begining to show its age in this company. I don't know about the 28mm 'Cron ASPH because mine has not yet arrived. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #17 Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks Peter . My big issue is distance and doing some corporate event work i have to do a lot of stage stuff and can't be right on top of the presenter. Now i do use the DMR and 180 on a tripod or monopod sometimes and that works well but the DMR does not work well after ISO 400. Not a noise lover. But the M8 easily is much better at 640 and even than i can push it a little and squeeze more, so the M8 is a ideal setup for some of this stuff so at least i will get the 90 apo to replace the 90 elmarit and i can leave the DMR back at the ranch, big thing for me is replacing the DMR with the M8 for this type of work and really my main reason i bought the M8 to begin with was this PR stuff but soon learned that it is much better at other work also as i have posted some of the more commercial type work that he M8 can do. That makes the most sense right now . The big issue is the 75's and than the 75 cron to the 90 cron. My big problem is I am not a specialist but more a generalist and all types of different work comes my way so folks wonder why so many lenses and this is part of the reason . I am all over the place on the look i want given the assignment, so I need a lot of different types of glass and I learned that with the DMR i could go in different directions and the M system is even better at it given the choices of glass out there. i thought I mastered the R side but man the M side can take years to get down to a science. LOL Think my wife will buy that explaination. NOT! LOL BTW Peter the 28 cron is right in there with your evaluation, exteremely high quality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 27, 2007 Share #18 Posted January 27, 2007 Guy, I have the 75lux and 90/2.8. 90asph sounds nice but I doubt you would use it much at f2.0. So what you gain is a little more sharpness over the 90/2.8. I find the 90/2.8 i nice mixture, sharp and detailed but not clinical. Something in between the 75lux and 75cron look. And the 90/2.8 is small size and low-weight. I am quit happy with 75lux +90/2.8 combo. If you close the f-stop a little I also find the 75lux to be quit sharp - so would you really miss something if you just exchange the 75cron with the 75lux? I thought to get the 75cron because of the lighter weight/size but I just like the 75lux images a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 27, 2007 Share #19 Posted January 27, 2007 Guy - The 75/2 is my favorite M lens. Favorite of all time. I believe there is something unique about its rendering of color, most of all. I know nothing about lens design, I just know that the pictures I take with my 75 have richer hues than any other lens in my kit. Having said that, some weeks ago, I took my M8 and 90 out. This will not come through in the shrunken dimensions necessary for web posting, but in the original DNG file, the isolation of the boy below is stunning. Therefore, I am compelled to say, get both the 75 and 90! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14567-75-apo-vs-90-apo/?do=findComment&comment=154483'>More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 27, 2007 Share #20 Posted January 27, 2007 Should have said, photo is with the 90 APO, ISO 160, F/2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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