Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #21 Posted January 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's a great question and i been trying to get the admins of this site to start a color management, raw processing section to get folks going in this area. but anyway no bettter way than learn by doing i think most experts would say the same thing but getting some basic knowledge of color management is essential to success also. There are several books out there like Real world color and some others to get you thinking more digital and knowing how color works and color management. So that is one thing folks can do is get the understanding of color and it's management under control . Than learning raw processing and than maniuplation in PS . As you see Melvin taking a file and working it for more effect and image control. This part just takes some time to get to know and learn but having the basics under your belt makes final images a easier task. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here A better picture. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mitchell Posted January 27, 2007 Share #22 Posted January 27, 2007 There are lots of books that are 500 pages long and weigh 10 pounds. They give me a headache. "The Focal Easy Guide To Photoshop CS2" by Brad Hinkel is 200 small pages. It's not watered down, but just tells you what you need to know. I recommend it highly. Best, Mitchell Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted January 27, 2007 Share #23 Posted January 27, 2007 To the experts reading this thread....Along these lines, I am a beginner as well. Outside of years of trial and error (about which I have no problem) are there perhaps specific courses that could jump start one on the digital workflow path? Peter, I am not an expert but you can get a heck of a good start by ordering "Photoshop CS2 Workflow: The Digital Photographer's Guide" by Tim Grey. He also has a book on Color Management called, "Color Confidence 2nd Edition: The Digital Photographer's Guide to Color Management". I felt these books were excellent references in bringing me up to speed several years ago. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrisc Posted January 27, 2007 Share #24 Posted January 27, 2007 To all: I hope Savvas does not feel my changes to his image are in any way disrespectful. Many years ago I thought a class at the school of Visual Arts in New York and one of the class assignments was to alter a image that was viewed as a failure and turn it into a keeper. If you read Savvas's post he asks for help in the digital world using his M8. I hate the word DIGITAL because in many circles it has become the code word for fake or of lesser quality. 1. "Ideas are not digital" .... all great images start with personal vision. 2. Cameras are meerly tools that help photographers render their vision. 3. Many of my new images are captured with a digital camera and some are not but I consider them with the same respect, if the image is worthy. I believe the difference between digital and film (if we resort to those terms) are in my view based on "Nostalgic Attachment." In the 1850's when daguerreotypes were giving way to the collodion process the outcry was much stronger than to the demise of our beloved Kodachrome 10... yes K10 it was in my opinion the best. The idea that there is a magic camera that will take great pictures right out of the box is folly. In the new world of photography we are blessed with tools that can reflect our vision more efficiently than in the past. One of the tools that has become the new enlarger of the day is Photoshop. In PS you burn and dodge more sensitivly than in the enlarger. You can also process your images to your personal taste.... in fact you can create your own emulsion... copy the grain structure of any film and apply it to your (eeech) digital image. But, why settle for Velvia when you can create "Guyvia, Melvia or Savia"; why settle for a manufactured palette. Sorry to stray off course but in order to answer all of the questions about Savvas' image I thought it proper to express my thinking. The streaking on the left of the glass is a motion blur that I added to the picture because the frame left area looked empty and also at the request of Guy who asked I add a rim light to the left side of the glass. Please understand the changes to Savvas image were a quick solution to show how a mood change can help a unrealized image... applied to a meer jpeg.... my solution is far from my satisfaction... just a quicky. Have we all become so sensitive to banding that we cannot see the difference between a photographic guality or a mechanical flaw in the image? The problem with Savvas' image was in the lighting. If the lighting was more interesting it could have become a keeper. Waiting for the light, or recognizing the light, or creating the "LIGHT" is what pictures are made of. There will never be a magic camera that can replace the human mind. I believe Leica will solve all of the banding, wb, and Ir problems in short order; think of how much you learned going along with the growing pains. If you deny yourself of Photoshop and the myriad of available tools I suggest you print your M camera pictures without an enlarger! With respect to all. Best Melvin http://sokolsky.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipotto Posted January 27, 2007 Share #25 Posted January 27, 2007 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! merlot Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! merlot ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14544-a-better-picture/?do=findComment&comment=154433'>More sharing options...
LJL Posted January 27, 2007 Share #26 Posted January 27, 2007 Melvin, Thank you for the inspiration and the explanation to my question. I understand what you are saying, and do see the value of that change. My comment with respect to banding was offered, because your induced motion blur looked like it extended quite far away from the glass stem. Your concept and Savvas' image work here, I think, with a bit less motion blur. (You are correct, many of us have become quite sensitized to some of the mechanical/electronic issues that are being corrected.) Your other thoughts about the lighting for the background are spot on. That was the piece I was having a harder time describing in my comments. The out of focus softness and all looked nice, but the overall brightness was still a bit jarring and distracting from a great subject isolation of the bottle and the glass. Great stuff, and thank you for your comments. LJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sps Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share #27 Posted January 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) No offense taken! I'm here to learn! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 27, 2007 Share #28 Posted January 27, 2007 Melvin I went to SVA back in 77 I believe , Long ago. Great school wish i stayed the full term but left after a year and commuting from PA no less. Anyway these kinds of things like working images and making them feel good to ones soul is truly what it is all about. We are pretty much past the M8 growing pains and honestly even myself have put to much thought into it. Finally i know the fixes coming and i am much more at ease with it and can count on it to be a tool that I can count on. I will say when we get into these kinds of discussions about image is really when i get excited and truly what we should be discussing. This stuff lifts the spirit and develops the mind to create and to go and shoot for your soul. This is Art and sometimes we get so wrapped up in the mechanics that we forget why we buy certain gear in the first place. I bought Leica because it is simple to work it makes my mind work and create no auto motion stuff just me and a eyepiece and let your brain have fun. Than when you download you have a whole avenue to explore to finish and create. i don't like the word digital either to be honest, rather just call it imaging or image. This interesting thing is you can take a image that was not lit so well and maybe to much detail in the background and create something completely different. As we seen some of the examples Melvin did and others there is no real right and no real wrong. This is what photography is No Rules you create with you mind. I always like Melvins description of this is with someone first and via in there name , and he is absolutely correct , create your own stamp on the world. Savvas I just read your last post is your here to leran. It never ends and when it does than I put the camera on the shelf and quit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrisc Posted January 27, 2007 Share #29 Posted January 27, 2007 Guy, I agree with your comments and the true interest of all who participate on the LUF. I am making prints for my show in New York on February 9th 2007 and while I am waiting for the printer I have been spending catchup time on the forums. I made another attempt on Savvas' image to show the versitility of PS .... please do not judge the putity of the image as it is full of artifacts and I do not have a raw file. 1-Cropped and changed the perspective of the image. 2-Added the reflection of Savvas in the glass and layered it on to the label. For my taste the label was too bright and stole the picture. 3- To those who asked the name of the wine... I guess we can call it Chateau Savvas' 4- To all purists, just ignore me! Best Melvin http://www.leica-camera-user.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23323&stc=1&d=1169929005 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14544-a-better-picture/?do=findComment&comment=154494'>More sharing options...
jrisc Posted January 27, 2007 Share #30 Posted January 27, 2007 a bit larger? http://www.leica-camera-user.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23328&stc=1&d=1169930059 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14544-a-better-picture/?do=findComment&comment=154499'>More sharing options...
sps Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share #31 Posted January 27, 2007 Since we are having fun.... Here it is from another perspective. The OOF area of granite lends some more texture to this one. Guy- I have added vignetting as suggested. This one has almost zero sharpening. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14544-a-better-picture/?do=findComment&comment=154507'>More sharing options...
roubaix Posted January 27, 2007 Share #32 Posted January 27, 2007 Very helpful advice everyone. Thanks, Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbjr Posted January 27, 2007 Share #33 Posted January 27, 2007 The horizontal streak seems to be about the same place as the white door muntin. The glow on the stem at the base of the bowl is caused by the light from above going through the wine. I've been experimenting with the adjustments. I think this one is better. It might be a little oversharpened. Comments? I'm curious about the sharpening. Amazingly sharp lens that has produced fantastic results for me in film, combined with a great sensor. I would think the pics would be sharp already! I have been reading about the need for it b/c of the Bayer filter, but it still doesn't seem right. ladera- nice wine. had some last month. john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhusick Posted January 28, 2007 Share #34 Posted January 28, 2007 The M8 is a great black and white machine. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14544-a-better-picture/?do=findComment&comment=154675'>More sharing options...
Hans Roggen Posted January 28, 2007 Share #35 Posted January 28, 2007 Just my tcw. Hans Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14544-a-better-picture/?do=findComment&comment=155060'>More sharing options...
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