ChrisC Posted January 27, 2007 Share #1 Â Posted January 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) It could be my imagination, but regarding the 16/18/21 Tri-elmar [WATE]; this forum seems unusually quiet. Â The WATE's inability to use an IR filter with a lens hood has been well discussed and the issue needs fixing, but are the lenses still being shipped? Forum members with a WATE on order; are you expecting an imminent delivery? Perhaps Leica are holding the lens back? [i have a vested interest in hoping the latter is true]. Â Of course another option could be that the lenses are being delivered and they are so brilliant that owners are too busy making pictures to report here. Â I know that some forum members have their lens, but feedback on the current WATE supply would be gratefully received. Â .................................Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 Hi ChrisC, Take a look here WATE waiting?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
osera Posted January 27, 2007 Share #2  Posted January 27, 2007 Hi Chris-  There have been some WATE delivered, I've had one for about a month. As best I can tell, there has no official information about holding back or reformulating the lens design yet, although as you know there has been speculation.  I have begun to use the lens a bit, and I have to say that I really like it. You may have seen these threads I started a while back. Nothing really new for me to report since then as I have been distracted.  http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/12448-trying-out-new-tri-elmar-m8.html  http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/13235-new-tri-elmar-21-2-8-a.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share #3 Â Posted January 27, 2007 Allen - Thank you for replying. I clearly remember your posts of one month ago and I read them with great interest; I am pleased you are enjoying your lens. The lack of similar reports from other members aroused my curiosity which lead to starting this thread, the silence seems a little odd to me given the importance of this lens for wide angle M8 work. Â .......................Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted January 27, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted January 27, 2007 Got a letter from Leica which quotes a "preferential price" for a new WATE $2426 USD. On Popflash, a grey market 28-35-50 is $2,857 without the coding (new USA with coding is $3,495) and coding costs $125, so the best US price after coding would be $2982. I would expect the WATE to be more expensive than the 28/50. Therefore, it would seem to me, the $2,426 represents a pretty good deal... Â JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannirr Posted January 27, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted January 27, 2007 I've been using the WATE for a week - but using it a lot. I use it with the 21/24/28 finder. It is an excellent lens as best I can tell. I am certainly happy I bought it. Â Danni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 27, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted January 27, 2007 Leaving aside the issue of the lens hood/cap/filter carrier/filter, the real issue is the cyan correction. Â Leica have shot themselves in the foot because this is the lens which will need it most and because the camera doesn't know the selected focal length when it's used, is also the one - the only one - where the planned cyan correction cannot work without either a compromise or a manual selection of focal length. Â Leica have acknowledged this in a bland statement of the obvious, but have not gone on to explain how they are going to handle it, if at all. V1.10 will hopefully tell us more. Â In the meantime, I'm told I'll be waiting for 3 months for mine. Whether that reflects high sales or low or paused production pending changes is anyone's guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share #7  Posted January 27, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leaving aside the issue of the lens hood/cap/filter carrier/filter, the real issue is the cyan correction. Leica have shot themselves in the foot...................the planned cyan correction cannot work without either a compromise or a manual selection of focal length........... V1.10 will hopefully tell us more.  Mark - These are the concerns I have and I echo your sentiment about Leica's self wounding tendency; some would call it stupidity.  I am a first time Leica customer with my M8 [still on order], the camera will mostly be used for wide angle work and the WATE is the only Leica lens wide enough to be my first choice lens. We remain uninformed about corrections of the WATE's hood/cap/filter and cyan drift issues and it is impossible to plan my lens purchases without knowing if/when/ or how the WATE problems are resolved. Without information from Leica about these concerns I can see myself reaching a breaking point whereby I reject the Leica M8 wide angle lens tax and accept the compromise of a CV 15 mm lens.  Come on Leica; learn the lessons of the M8 launch PR disaster, keep your customer base informed, and clear out your dead wood!  .....................Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 30, 2007 Share #8  Posted January 30, 2007 Leaving aside the issue of the lens hood/cap/filter carrier/filter, the real issue is the cyan correction. Leica have shot themselves in the foot because this is the lens which will need it most and because the camera doesn't know the selected focal length when it's used, is also the one - the only one - where the planned cyan correction cannot work without either a compromise or a manual selection of focal length.  Leica have acknowledged this in a bland statement of the obvious, but have not gone on to explain how they are going to handle it, if at all. V1.10 will hopefully tell us more.  In the meantime, I'm told I'll be waiting for 3 months for mine. Whether that reflects high sales or low or paused production pending changes is anyone's guess.  Mark, exactly my thoughts and I can not decide if I should get the wate as my discount lens or not. I might wait alittle and see how they figur it out. Maybe the cyan vignetting is not that different between 16-18-21 and they can find a good average correction? Still leaves the filter OR hood-problem open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted January 30, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted January 30, 2007 In the meantime, I'm told I'll be waiting for 3 months for mine. Whether that reflects high sales or low or paused production pending changes is anyone's guess. Â Mark, Â Have you been advised of this delay by Solms themselves? Â Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 30, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted January 30, 2007 3 month wait. Wow maybe we should order now. still deciding on this one the 30 percent off is killing me staring at my two letters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 30, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Thomas, the problem is that the camera vignetting correction has to match the red vignetting which is mostly a function of angle of view. If it's too little, the cyan will remain, if it's too much, it will be replaced with red. The 16mm focal length is the most extreme situation the camera has to cope with and because Leica's lack of foresight in making the selected focal length known to the camera, it's the one the camera is least equipped to handle. Â That contrasts with the sensor vignetting which is linked to the size and position of the exit pupil and it may be that this does not change significantly as you change focal length, so they probably thought they could get away with it. Â I don't subscribe to the idea that IR only affect black artificial fabrics. You only have to look at fuzzy image which an IR-pass filter allows through to realise this will be superimposed on the visible light image and cast a haze on the picture. If the camera is sensitive to IR, then lens is going to need a filter. And a lens hood, except there isn't one. It is, frankly, a mess. Â And don't get me started on the lens distortion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmith Posted January 30, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted January 30, 2007 I ordered a WATE as my discounted lens an have had a letter saying rhat "surprisingly" demans has been vey great and there will be a delay of two to three months in delivery. Alwyn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 30, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Maybe 1.10 will solve this issue with the cyan cast for the WATE and actually read what focal length is being used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 30, 2007 Share #14  Posted January 30, 2007 Thomas, the problem is that the camera vignetting correction has to match the red vignetting which is mostly a function of angle of view. If it's too little, the cyan will remain, if it's too much, it will be replaced with red. The 16mm focal length is the most extreme situation the camera has to cope with and because Leica's lack of foresight in making the selected focal length known to the camera, it's the one the camera is least equipped to handle. That contrasts with the sensor vignetting which is linked to the size and position of the exit pupil and it may be that this does not change significantly as you change focal length, so they probably thought they could get away with it.  I don't subscribe to the idea that IR only affect black artificial fabrics. You only have to look at fuzzy image which an IR-pass filter allows through to realise this will be superimposed on the visible light image and cast a haze on the picture. If the camera is sensitive to IR, then lens is going to need a filter. And a lens hood, except there isn't one. It is, frankly, a mess.  And don't get me started on the lens distortion...  maybe they will design a hood for use with filter. And probably they will integrate a way to type the select he "mm" into the camera in the settings. Anyway, might be faster to just change lenses. Maybe I should go with th cv15, zeiss18 and Leica21 instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
666thx Posted January 30, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Maybe the new Finder with the frame selector can tell the M8 wich focal lenght is selectet. Â Ingo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted January 30, 2007 Share #16  Posted January 30, 2007 I ordered a WATE as my discounted lens an have had a letter saying rhat "surprisingly" demans has been vey great and there will be a delay of two to three months in delivery. Alwyn  Thank you for the information Alwyn, I too have ordered the WATE as my discounted lens. It looks as though we are all in for a long WAIT. ;-)  Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 30, 2007 Share #17  Posted January 30, 2007 Mark, Have you been advised of this delay by Solms themselves?  Eric  Eric, yes, I was told in my order acknowledgment that there had been a "surprising number of orders" and there was 2 - 3 month wait.  It may yet be that when we see what V1.10 offers that I decide to cancel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 30, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Maybe 1.10 will solve this issue with the cyan cast for the WATE and actually read what focal length is being used. Â Guy, the only way it will be able to do this is if you manually select the focal length from, for example, the set menu. There's no coupling between the focal length ring and the camera, the coding doesn't change nor does the frame selection lever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted January 30, 2007 Share #19  Posted January 30, 2007 Eric, yes, I was told in my order acknowledgment that there had been a "surprising number of orders" and there was 2 - 3 month wait. It may yet be that when we see what V1.10 offers that I decide to cancel.  Thanks Mark. I really hope that they can sort all of this out, as it does appear to be an excellent lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 30, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted January 30, 2007 Guy, the only way it will be able to do this is if you manually select the focal length from, for example, the set menu. There's no coupling between the focal length ring and the camera, the coding doesn't change nor does the frame selection lever. Â Â So the coding would see it as what a 16mm Tri. but not a 18 or 21mm. I wonder what focal length is actually see's the lens as Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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