Tony C. Posted January 25, 2007 Share #1 Posted January 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let me qualify the following impressions by stating that I am new to the Leica M system, and have used, with rare exceptions, SLRs and DSLRs in the past. I recently acquired an M8 (no problems yet, thank you!), and, after having done quite a bit of research, decided to include a Zeiss 21mm 2.8 Biogon in my initial core group of lenses. I also decided to buy the Zeiss 25/28 finder to along with the lens. I had read virtually unanimous praise for the M8 finder, most users claiming that it compares favorably with those found in the earlier M models. I have nothing to compare it to, and my eyesight is fine, but I have found the M8 finder to be no better than good. Perhaps based on the positive reviews from seasoned Leica users, coupled with the distinct lack of negative feedback, my expectations were unrealistic. Now, having just used the Zeiss external finder for the first time, I am shocked by its superiority! I understand that many object to any accessory which adds to the M8's size, but to my mind, such a minor factor (the finder adds roughly one square inch to the M8) pales in comparison to the big, beautiful, incredibly bright optics of the Zeiss. Believe me, I'm not prone to hyperbole, but even setting aside the obvious advantage of being able to use the Zeiss framelines for a 21mm lens, it’s a real pleasure to frame shots through this viewfinder. It’s true, of course, that focusing must still be done through the M8 finder, and that the Zeiss isn’t cheap, but obviously even those factors haven’t dampened my enthusiasm. I suppose I should end by mentioning that my (very) early results with the Zeiss 21mm Biogen have been excellent, and the money saved over the equivalent Leica lens certainly helped to ease the pain of the cost of the external finder. Regards, Tony C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 25, 2007 Posted January 25, 2007 Hi Tony C., Take a look here M8 and Zeiss external viewfinder thoughts.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 25, 2007 Share #2 Posted January 25, 2007 You should try the CV finders. They are excellent - at a fraction of the price. I would not even consider either Leica or Zeiss. The metal 28 mm one for the 21 lenses is a beautiful classic little chrome tube, perfectly matched to the M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted January 25, 2007 Share #3 Posted January 25, 2007 I agree that the external finders are brighter. I have a Leica 24mm finder and a Voigtlander 28mm finder and they are both brighter than the rf. However, unless I know I'm in the correct focus zone, I use the rf and guestimate the lens coverage. When the subject is moving, there isn't much choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 25, 2007 Share #4 Posted January 25, 2007 I agree, Bill, I hardly ever use the finder. All the more reason to buy the cheapest one. But I put my classic-looking Voigtländer on it whenever I want to be oldfashioned Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 25, 2007 Share #5 Posted January 25, 2007 I agree that the Zeiss finder is amazing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted January 25, 2007 Share #6 Posted January 25, 2007 The plastic CV 25mm viewfinder is good but the Zeiss 25/28 v/f is INCREDIBLE! I first bought the CV but one glimpse through the Zeiss and the CV was eliminated without delay. No comparison. -g Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 25, 2007 Share #7 Posted January 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Tony, The Zeiss 25/28 finder is wonderful but keep in mind that the VF in the M8 is a much more complicated device than an external finder. An internal finder can really only be fairly compared to another iternal finder with the same features. That said, I slightly prefer the viewfinder of the Zeiss Ikon to that of the M7 (but just a bit). The M7/M8 finder is exceptional and that might be more apparent to you if you looked through other RF cameras. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C. Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted January 25, 2007 Hi Sean, Thanks for your input. I appreciate that built-in and external viewfinders are not comparable, and I'm sure that you (and others) are correct about the M8 finder's excellence. My reaction to the Zeiss is really about it being (in my view) a very attractive alternative when fine focusing is not required. Best regards, Tony C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 26, 2007 Share #9 Posted January 26, 2007 Hi Sean, Thanks for your input. I appreciate that built-in and external viewfinders are not comparable, and I'm sure that you (and others) are correct about the M8 finder's excellence. My reaction to the Zeiss is really about it being (in my view) a very attractive alternative when fine focusing is not required. Best regards, Tony C. It sure is. Those new Zeiss finders are best external finders I've ever seen. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deoman Posted January 26, 2007 Share #10 Posted January 26, 2007 Sean: You often do price/performance comparisons in your articles. Would you care to comment on a price/performnce basis on the Cosina/Zeiss/Leica external finders, especially the 21mm and 24/24mm finders? Dennis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 26, 2007 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2007 Sean: You often do price/performance comparisons in your articles. Would you care to comment on a price/performnce basis on the Cosina/Zeiss/Leica external finders, especially the 21mm and 24/24mm finders? Dennis The 21 ones are not the most interesting ones. The 28 covers the FOV of the 21 lenses on the M8. I meant the metal CV one btw, which is preferable to the plastic one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 28, 2007 Share #12 Posted January 28, 2007 This is the one I mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 28, 2007 Share #13 Posted January 28, 2007 Sean: You often do price/performance comparisons in your articles. Would you care to comment on a price/performnce basis on the Cosina/Zeiss/Leica external finders, especially the 21mm and 24/24mm finders? Dennis Hi Dennis, Yes, that's true. If the timing works out well, I may have the Zeiss 25/28 finder here while I still have the CV 28 metal finder around (same model as Jaap shows above). If so, I'll compare them in an addition to the 21 mm lenses article which is in progress right now. I need to use the finders side by side to draw any useful conclusions. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 28, 2007 Share #14 Posted January 28, 2007 I wonder how good the Zeiss ist compared to the Leic q 21-24-28 and also how this two compare to the new (ugly) Leica multi finder. Any experience? I dont mind external viewfinders but I would not like have to change external viewfinders all the time-just one which I could leave on the camera. (So far I use the Leica 21mm finder for the CV15 but which finder to use with a WATE?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C. Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted January 28, 2007 I addressed the same topic on the Rangefinder Forum, and I don't believe that Stuart will mind if I copy his response here. It may shed some light on the CV vs. Zeiss question. Regards, Tony C. I agree with you Tony, I keep saying how great the Zeiss finder is, but everyone tells me I am crazy because it is so expensive. I bought mine in Japan where it was cheaper, but yes, it is still quite expensive. That said, it is much better than the voigtlander finders. Not only is it much brighter, but it has almost no distortion, something which the CV finders have loads of. The lack of distortion aids in composition because it is much more of a "what you see is what you get" situation than with the voigtlander finders. The CV finders are still excellent, but it is a different experience with the Zeiss (for me anyway). __________________ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 28, 2007 Share #16 Posted January 28, 2007 It sure is. Those new Zeiss finders are best external finders I've ever seen. Cheers, Sean Sean Just curious. Have you compared the Zeiss finders with the Leica 21-24-28 finder or any of the individual Leica finders. Before I plunk down a lot of cash I would love to know the answer. Thanks Woody Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted January 28, 2007 Share #17 Posted January 28, 2007 I am still looking for an external finder for the Elmarit 24 f2.8 on the M8 ...I know the desired model is the CV RD-1 21-D model but this one is sold out everywhere I checked . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 5, 2007 Share #18 Posted March 5, 2007 I used to use a Zeiss 21 finder on my G2, with the Biogon G21 and it was very bright althougth rather "fish-eyed". With the autofocus on the G2, you did not need to look through the normal viewfinder, unless you needed to see the shutter speed so no great hardship. The B21 viewfinder gives far too wide a field of view with the ZM 21 on the M8 and in any case I sold it along with the G21. Having grown up using dual rangefinder and viewfinder windows on LTM Leicas, this is something I am always quite happy not to use. It is a complete pain to have to focus through one window and then shift your eye to another to frame. If you can just use zone focussing like you can on the CV 15 and 12mm Heliars or my Zenitar fish-eye, that is again fine. That is why in the end I decided against a WATE and for wide angles use just the Biogon 21, where you can manage by extrapolating a bit from the edge of the viewfinder (peering round the corner) and the Zenitar, where there is no coupled focussing and I have no idea what finder you would use. Just point it at the middle of what you want to take, knowing you have almost 180º FOV. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamriman Posted March 5, 2007 Share #19 Posted March 5, 2007 Once you you check out a zeiss finder, theres no comparison. Its worth the extra $. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 5, 2007 Share #20 Posted March 5, 2007 It is not clear which Leica auxiliary finder Tony C was complaining about. If it was the three-focal-length Finder M (21, 24 and 28 mm) then he certainly had good reason to grumble. This was certainly not one of Leica's most brilliant creations. The image was extremely fuzzy around the edges, and there was no clear delimitation of the image field. This not only made it difficult to compose the picture, it also made it next to impossible to level the camera properly -- and that is disastrous with super wide lenses. The single focal length bright frame finders that were discontinued in 1998--2001 were however completely OK, just as good as the C/V finders. It is next to incredible that Leica made this gaffe. People had of course complained since 1980 about the fact that the outer casings of these finders now were made of polycarbonate plastic, so perhaps Leica thought that they had an inferior product. And the Finder M was of course shinier ... So with the advent of the M8 Leica decided to solve both the wide angle problem and the finder problem once and for all. Once-and-for-all solutions are usually catastrophic, and so was this one. The Wide Angle Tele Elmar is not only an abortion, and as it seems not very compatible with the camera it was intended for, but the Universal Finder is not only huge and ugly and hugely expensive -- what is worse, it offers the hurried photographer nearly infinite opportunites to mismatch lens and finder focal lengths. There is only one rational course of action left for Leica Camera. This is not to protract the painful market death of the lens and the finder, but to replace them with a decent 4.0 or 4.5 sixteen millimeter prime lens as soon as possible. The present situation is one wonderful windfall for Zeiss and Cosina; and they will surely exploit it. The horrible old man from the Age of Prime Lenses Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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