Second Lens

[innerimager]

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Peter- the noctilux is best thought of as a specialty lens to be used mostly at F1- F1.4. From F2 and down 50 crons (there are many of course) and luxes will outperform the noctilux. The other 50s are much smaller, lighter, and faster to focus as the noctilux employs a very slow focus throw designed to aid focusing extremely narrow areas for the tiny DOF at F1 or so. In preparing for the M8, I went for a used noctilux and a much older 50 summicron (rigid chrome) which I got for $400 or so. This is a wonderful general purpose 50, and I use the noctilux for either very selective DOF or night shooting. Having said this, the incredible performance I see in the newer 50 luxes tempts me to go this way with my discount, but I'll probably go with a 75 cron or lux. best....Peter

[Frank Sprow]

I have a 50 Summilux M and a Noctilux (a rather beat up old timer). I often use them to take pictures at jazz clubs in available light, mostly in B&W. I've found that the Noctilux really gives no more light, averaged over the entire frame (on either the film M's or the M8) than the Summilux, due to the vignetting on the Noctilux. Coupled with the long focus ring travel of the Noctilux and its weight, it usually stays at home.

 

Another really great lens is the 75 Summicron (the sharpest lens in my bag).

[Peter Branch]

....... In 'half syllables of non rocket science' talk could someone please explain the downside of a seemingly (albeit to a newbie) great lens.......

 

Peter, I'll try - The f/1 Noctilux is a somewhat specialized item. It is heavy and the focusing ring is "Slow", i.e. it has to be turned through a greater angle than other lenses to give the same focus change. It suffers from quite a pronounced focus shift as you stop down which is most noticeable at f/2. For a 50mm lens it vignettes noticeably at large apertures. It’s expensive. It’s a very devil to focus accurately on a consistent basis at f/1

 

Now the good news; it has extremely low flare which gives images of high contrast and surprisingly good colour fidelity under difficult conditions. The visual impression of images taken at f/1 and f/1.4 is much better than the MTF data would seem to imply. It is a true f/1 lens as measured by light transmission in the centre of the image. Shadows towards the edges of the frame can appear underexposed because of the vignetting and the absence of flare. With the M8 the equivalent focal length of about 68mm is very nice for people shots.

 

As regards performance at smaller apertures it is actually surprisingly good at f/5.6 beating many of the other 50mm lenses, particularly with the smaller image size of the M8. It is not however as “good” as the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH at any aperture.

 

If you need the speed it is unrivalled, if you like the way it “draws”, which has been described as being with a thick dark pencil, then you won’t be disappointed. But the Summilux is a better all round lens. If you get a Noctilux I would be surprised if you did not also acquire a 50mm Summicron, though that is beginning to show its age, if for no other reason than to save weight.

 

Just my view but I’m surprised that any 50mm lens, other than the specialist Noctilux, is of interest to users of the M8. It’s a bit long and the 35mm would seem to me to be the “replacement” standard lens in an M8 world. The 75mm f/2 Apo-Summicron-M ASPH is a fantastic lens on the M8.

[gesper]

To reframe my original question a little, while this would be my second lens, it won't by any means be my last. My intention was to take best advantage of the discount while getting a lens that I would truly want anyway. My original focus on the Nocti was more because of the legend surrounding its specialized "look" and low-light usage as opposed to the focal length. (As some have pointed out, I can always get closer with the 35 cron.) Also, the Nocti seems to be soemwhat hard to find.

 

Even if I go for the Nocti, I would at some point want something wider (probably a 24) and longer, so the input on the 75's is extremely helpful. Cost is not really a big issue, but quality and putting together a great set of lenses is.

 

I still dont know what I want to do, so if anyone has additional ideas in this slightly different context, I would appreciate it.

[xjr]

The 50mmf1.4 ASPH together with the 75mmf2 of similar construction are arguably the finest optics on the market today.

[Peter Branch]

.......I still dont know what I want to do, so if anyone has additional ideas in this slightly different context, I would appreciate it.

 

You seem to be faced with the dilemma of how to maximise the advantage of the 30% offer. Two factors need to be considered. Firstly how much are you prepared to spend on the eventual system and secondly how long will it take to acquire the system.

 

In the classic Leica world, recalibrated in this instance for the M8, there are some “standard” sets of lenses. Assuming only Leica focal lengths and that we are not concerned with a specialized interest like portraiture or architecture: -

 

The two lens set becomes a 28mm and a 75mm. The classic lightweight general purpose and travel set.

 

Three lens 28mm, 35mm and 75mm or, occasionally, 24mm, 35mm and 90mm. It depends on the type of use, weight to be carried etc.

 

Five lens 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 75mm and 90mm. This does just about everything that most people need.

 

Depending on the degree of specialization people then add the “outliers”; WATE, Noctilux, 90mm macro, 135mm. Leica have told me that an analysis of lens sales suggests that owning one or more of these “specialist” lenses is important to their customers and explains the relatively large number of these items that they sell.

 

So if you buy a specialist lens you are effectively committing yourself,(assuming no special reason for doing so, which you would, I think, have indicated), to buying one or more “standard” lenses if you are to get the most out of your investment and experience the full capabilities of the M8. No one but you can decide which way to go.

[Tony C.]

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Gesper,

 

I am also new to the M system, and have only recently acquired an M8, so my advice may not be quite as valuable as those who are more experienced. Having said that, I bought a (used) Noctilux several weeks before I took delivery of the camera. I did so because, having researched thoroughly, I had the impression that the Noctilux was capable of producing beautiful images under uniquely demanding (low-light) conditions. My brief experience with it has confirmed that impression.

 

The criticisms which some have offered are valid, in that the Noctilux is bigger, more difficult to focus because of its narrow DOF, and not as good as some of the other 50mm lenses when stopped down. But again, it's capabilities are unique, and if low-light and night shooting interests you, then I would encourage you to include it in your choices.

 

The only other bit of advice which you might find useful is that I've just recently bought a Zeiss 21mm 2.8 Biogon, and am quite happy with the early returns. It is, of course, much less expensive than the Leica equivalent, has been well-reviewed by many of the pros who have used it, and is probably worth considering if you are considering a 21mm lens.

 

Good luck in any case!

 

Regards,

 

Tony C.

[ptomsu]

if you have only the 2/35, then the 2/75 would make most sense for you, if you want to cover a wider range, otherwise the 1.4/50ASPH, which is definitely much more versatile compared to the Nocti (which I own and love, but if I had only 2 lenses I would not cjoose the Nocti).

[lepremier]

Thank you guys for some really good information, I am a bit annoyed with myself for rushing in to order the Noctilux so quickly now. Obviously a great lens but a bit of a speciallity piece, one of the other 50mm's would probably be a better general purpose lens! Specially considering the price.....

[wattsy]

Thank you guys for some really good information, I am a bit annoyed with myself for rushing in to order the Noctilux so quickly now.

 

I'm sure Leica will be happy to change your order if you let them know. The customer services associated with the M8 (and the associated offer) seem very responsive and I can't imagine that altering your lens choice would be a problem.

[EricC]

I'll second Ian on this.

 

I have just E-mailed Solms to ask if i could alter my order.

 

The young lady who dealt with my E-mail was most helpful and responded extremely quickly too.