jacarape Posted January 23, 2011 Share #61 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) In America where the humble wiener is food for kids, baseball games and an easy way to dispose of nuclear waste, it's important to avoid any dog that lists chicken on the ingredients. It's a poor filler that causes soft, mushy results, maybe the Summaron of foods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Hi jacarape, Take a look here What is wrong with Leica?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted January 23, 2011 Share #62 Posted January 23, 2011 Chicago Vienna Hot Dog - Best in the country Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 23, 2011 Share #63 Posted January 23, 2011 Chicago Vienna Hot Dog - Best in the country I rest my case! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 23, 2011 Share #64 Posted January 23, 2011 Ah laughing at each other's usernames now are we? Can’t say I’m a fan of hiding behind a made-up name, but of course it is perfectly acceptable to choose a nick to make a statement. Real names fare poorly in this regard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 23, 2011 Share #65 Posted January 23, 2011 ... They lost money on every lens but made it up in volume. ... Eh? If they lost money on every lens then the volume would just be a larger loss. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 23, 2011 Share #66 Posted January 23, 2011 Pete, it's an old joke. Probably as funny as an accountant would get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 23, 2011 Share #67 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't get the fuss. Leica (apparently) feel that good things take time and effort. They take time and care to produce ridiculously expensive equipment for a very particular crowd. It used to be that you bought a Leica, and it was for life. That sort of passion and dedication results in strong loyalty, which you see here. If they didn't produce a good product, and have a loyal following, they would have disappeared with their threatened bankruptcy a few years ago. Now they're popular again, people are complaining they can't get enough of their product. For a producer, that is a very nice place to be, but it would be very silly indeed to forget the recent past. For the hamburger crowd (I want it hot and I want it now), you just have to understand that good things take time. The hot dog analogy is odd - it's food. Once it's consumed, you will be hungry in another 2 or 3 hours. I don't go through cameras or lenses in any where near that time scale. Then again, perhaps that says more than at first appears about this analogy - it really is a hotdog mentality. Give it to me now, because it's hot, I want it, its cool and it's the thing of the moment ... If you went for the pizza (Voigtlander/Zeiss or whatever), whereas you really wanted the hotdog (Leica), you're still going to look at your choice as second best. If you didn't there wouldn't be a problem. Conversely, if your need is real and urgent, shop around - you'll find the lens you want. It may take time or effort, but you will find it. When I hear people talk of "grow or die", the "market prevails" and "profitability is king", I think of the Lorax ... Something special would go if Leica became mass-market, because it would make mass market decisions, and it would respond to the lowest common denominator (I have wondered for some time if the Summarit range was to fit this purposes - no slight intended to these lenses or the people who use them). Good things take time, and they're worth waiting for. I have no Noctilust, but the thought that Leica make a lens which takes 2 years just for the glass to cool I find amazing. I love the fact that some one does this, and I'm not at all surprised that it costs what it does, or that it's hard to get. The truth is, I simply don't have the skill to make the most of a lens like that (or, I don't have the time to come to grips with it). But I love the fact that my 50 Lux comes from the same maker. Once this bubble of demand over supply has passed, once the next "hot thing" comes along, and Leica is stuck with an expanded supply chain which no longer has the same demand, and the product is made with a little less care and passion, the market will have prevailed (and whichever Nikanon product will have caught your attention will be the next big thing, as Leica hasn't responded to demand by having zooms or auto-focus, or EVFs or HD video), and we will all be the poorer for it. I suspect a better food analogy is slow food v fast food (a 3 star restaurant booked months in advance, as opposed to McDonalds). Alternatively, parmesano reggiano, which is produced with people who care what their cheese tastes like, only in Parma at a certain time of the year (granted, it is stored), compared to the orange muck the American's call cheese. One brought to you with care under reasonably strict conditions, then other mass produced to meet the demand of the free market. (wine also works - try buying a case of Guigal's La Mouline - no shortage of demand, but I think there is only one bottle in this country, at $500 per bottle). So if you really can't wait, I suggest that the alternatives really are for you. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted January 23, 2011 Share #68 Posted January 23, 2011 [ . . .]It's a poor filler that causes soft, mushy results, maybe the Summaron of foods. Hey, nothing mushy with my Summaron - ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 24, 2011 Share #69 Posted January 24, 2011 Some photographers are self-centered, and assume that anything that is bad for them is bad for Leica. It ain't necessarily so. As R users found out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 24, 2011 Share #70 Posted January 24, 2011 Hey, nothing mushy with my Summaron - ! A f/2.8 in good condition optically is pretty good wide open and excellent by /5.6, it does the SC signature, which meny people prefer. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 24, 2011 Share #71 Posted January 24, 2011 Some photographers are self-centered, and assume that anything that is bad for them is bad for Leica. It ain't necessarily so. As R users found out. True, as indeed is the opposite. Some photographers are self-centred and assume that anything that is good for them is good for Leica. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 24, 2011 Share #72 Posted January 24, 2011 Some photographers are self-centered, and assume that anything that is bad for them is bad for Leica. It ain't necessarily so. As R users found out. R users found out that Leica changed its mind after having claimed that the R10 would be released in January 2010. More word-breaking than self-centering if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 24, 2011 Share #73 Posted January 24, 2011 Many things were planned and claimed for 2010 and failed to materialise due to the small matter of a global recession... Leica is not alone in having to cut their cloth accordingly. That said, I cannot remember any spokesman from Leica giving their word that there would be an R solution in 2010. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 24, 2011 Share #74 Posted January 24, 2011 ...I cannot remember any spokesman from Leica giving their word that there would be an R solution in 2010... They gave their word to BJP at least. LeicaR10_BJP_090309.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 24, 2011 Share #75 Posted January 24, 2011 'Leica is working hard long term to bring a new R solution to the market,' he adds. and "The R10 is expected to be released in January 2010" are no more than expectation and intention. If David Bell had said "The R10 will definitely be released in January 2010 and will be in the shops for you to buy on 1st February 2010", that would be completely different. IMHO, the statements to BJP do not consitute anything that Leica have broken their word over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 24, 2011 Share #76 Posted January 24, 2011 Ok, read that. "The R10 is expected to be released in January 2010, according to Leica's spokesman." "...expected to be released...", in my world, is aspirational at best. It is hardly a firm commitment much less a "given word". I would not hang my hat on such a "statement". Edit: Andy was quicker than me. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2011 Share #77 Posted January 24, 2011 Ah yes, That is before Stephan Daniel told forum members: "We have done a feasibility study into the R10 and found we are not able to produce it at a price that would make it even remotely competetive. So we are looking for another solution for Leica R users. That solution will not be made by Leica." Crystal clear imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 24, 2011 Share #78 Posted January 24, 2011 A fact is a fact my friends. Leica changed its mind which has nothing to do with the so-called "self-centering" of R users. Nothing personal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 24, 2011 Share #79 Posted January 24, 2011 R users found out that Leica changed its mind after having claimed that the R10 would be released in January 2010. More word-breaking than self-centering if you ask me. When you realize you are about to make a mistake, you should stop whatever you are doing, even when you had publicly announced your intention to follow through. In any case this is old news. In 2008 Leica had planned to develop an R10 slated for a release in 2010. That’s what Dr. Kaufmann had announced at photokina 2008. But they soon realized that the R10 they could have built wouldn’t stand a chance in the market it was targetting, so they had to scrap that plan. Ever since the spring of 2009 Leica has been telling anyone wanting to know that there would never be an R10. They are working on something entirely different (not a DSLR) that would eventually allow R lenses to be used with a digital camera doing those lenses justice, but without giving a fixed timeline or any guarantees. So yes, at one time Leica had the intent of developing an R10, only that was two years ago. Belabouring that point as if it was somehow still relevant is getting old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 24, 2011 Share #80 Posted January 24, 2011 A fact is a fact my friends. Leica changed its mind which has nothing to do with the so-called "self-centering" of R users. Nothing personal. Nothing personal taken. But Leica made no promise, swore no oath and gave no word. A fact is indeed a fact, no matter how unpalatable and reality is comprised of such facts. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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