FrankA Posted January 22, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 22, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) How can there be such a lack of lenses available? Can't get a 24 lux, 21 lux, 35 lux, 50 lux, 75 cron, 90 asph, or a 135 apo anywhere. Or it is very difficult. Now, I have heard all of the comments about how leica makes lenses. It takes years to get one out of the factory. That is why they are so good. I get it. But seriously, these lenses have not been available or only sparingly for over a year and a half now. It is just wrong and leica is only hurting themselves. They need to ramp up lens production for the M. I know part of it is that the M9 has exceeded expectation for sales. Great. But they have to meet demand for lenses or M9 sales will be meaningless. I know all about the size of the factory, number of employees, quality control, etc. Does not solve the issue they face of not being able to deliver the basic needs of a few of the lenses. Like the 35, 50, 75 and 90. The bread and butter of their line. These should never be out of stock or rarely. Period. It is like buying a car but you can't drive it because the manifolds are in short supply. It just would not happen. How can you sell cameras and have no lenses available? Makes no sense. And don't tell me about the used market. You can't find a lens there either. Please Leica, I need a 50 asph now. Not 9 months from now. In interest of full disclosure I have sold this lens in the past. I will never make that mistake again. And don't tell me your store has one. By the time I find that out it is sold. Or tell me but don't tell anyone else please. Rant over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Hi FrankA, Take a look here What is wrong with Leica?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dave_d Posted January 22, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 22, 2011 Just a thought, but maybe Leica is limiting supply to increase demand to justify the price of the products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 22, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 22, 2011 Hi Frank, I think you need to shop around. I got all my lenses in the last 2 months - 35/2 from Meister Berlin, 50/1.4 & 21/1.4 from Ken Hansen in NYC & 75/2 from eBay (California, somewhere). All the latest version Asph. Granted, they should be more easily available, but to a point. In many industries, there are the small players who make their goods with care and passion. They make mistakes sometimes, and they cabe slow and appear remote. But it would be a shame if they became mass market. The lenses are available. You just need to look a little further afield. Build up a relationship with a number of dealers, and you will find what you want. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankA Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted January 22, 2011 I know a some of places in the USA. Can't tell how much I have spent through Ken Hansen. Don't want the hassle of overseas purchases and exchange rates are not that favorable anyway. Just need to keep looking. On another note. I find it comical that most local leica dealers have all the M9's they want. But B&H in New York has been out for weeks. Now that one just does not make sense either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 22, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 22, 2011 "But it is serious for leica. No lenses to sell therefore less cash." Less than what? If Leica's capacity is, say, 500 lenses a month, and they are selling 500 lenses a month (i.e., everything they make) - then what is that "less" than? During the M9 drought last spring, we went over why it is not a good business plan for Leica to rapidly expand production to meet a spike in demand - because German labor law and the "social contract" that backs it make it hard to reduce capacity once the spike is past. And it is not just labor/staff - how many lens grinding and CNC milling machines are Leica and its suppliers supposed to buy, that will become redundant (and not easily sellable) once the current spike is past? Leica doesn't follow the U.S. model of "Grow, grow, grow! Expand, expand, expand! Slump, slump, slump! Bankrupt, bankrupt, bankrupt." And a good thing. Leica has had its financial woes, but it has never had to go to the German Gov't for a handout like - oh - Chrysler (twice), GM, Bear Stearns, Lehmann, AIG, and so on and so on. Of course, that's not really your point, is it? It's "I need a 50 asph now." Which is where pico's characterization comes in... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humood Posted January 22, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 22, 2011 I think John is absolutely right, you have to shop around for lenses, I purchased a Summilux 35, a 75 cron and a 90 cron in a record time during my transit in London last december, BUT I had to reserve the 35mm and guarantee purchase with my credit card after I phoned almost every Leica dealer in London, with the other lenses, I was simply lucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctilux4me Posted January 22, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 22, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know my opinion may not be popular in this forum with such entrenched die hard pro Leica people, but honestly, I have to agree that what Leica is doing is not reasonable or sensible. They can undersupply the market with M9's to maintain the exclusivity factor which is ok. People can place their orders and wait. Not different from any of the super luxury car brands. But the idea of releasing the camera and not having any of the premium lenses really makes zero sense. I can buy the M9 today from a number of dealers (black or silver), but damn if I can get a 35mm or 50mm. So again, why release the car if you hold back on the steering wheel? I can't imagine what will happen if one day, those precious technicians and manufacturing folks decide to strike. Anyways, I am a Leica fan and want to enjoy their product so if they are reading this board, to please double up on production for the core lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted January 22, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 22, 2011 Boo hoo... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 22, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 22, 2011 Frank I really think that you have already know all of the answers to the question why you can't get what you want immediately but just don't like the answers you got But you have a very large and expensive wishlist there, maybe you can locate some of the items surely, perhaps not in your most desired order?? Hang in there and keep shopping. I would tell you that my dealer has some stock right now but I know that you don't want to hear that My honest advice is to be faithful to a good dealer and get an order in. Waiting for a surplus is just asking for disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffp Posted January 22, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 22, 2011 I phoned R G lewis London a month ago on spec and they had a 35 Lux in stock (they had 4 actually) and I bought one. Yesterday I bought a 75mm new Cron (I didn't order it, it was in stock) from Harrison Cameras, UK. They also have a new 21mm Lux with 9% of the list price. Ffordes have an ex-demo 135mm Apo, described as new with full warranty for around 20% off list price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 22, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 22, 2011 Shop around. I bought from a UK as well as an Austrian Leica dealer. They had inventory and thanks to the currency exchange rates I even saved money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 22, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 22, 2011 Anyways, I am a Leica fan and want to enjoy their product so if they are reading this board, to please double up on production for the core lenses. And how are they going to do this? Suppose your boss came up to you on Monday and said "Frank you are in demand, we want you to double your production." you might point out that you were already working as hard as you could, and that their request was impossible to implement. The same with Leica, I doubt that the workforce spends its time sat around drinking beer and eating sausage. It's a simple case of demand exceeding supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 22, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 22, 2011 It is like buying a car but you can't drive it because the manifolds are in short supply. So again, why release the car if you hold back on the steering wheel? Ah, there's the solution. If the lens has the same relative importance to you as a manifold or the wheel, you are in the comfortable position that you can use third-party products. What can go wrong with a steering wheel or a manifold that can't the easily fixed? If, OTOH, you somewhat follow the discussions around here concerning the supply of new prime lenses you have become aware of the fact that Leica repeatedly seems to have stated that they can't get lens parts, especially the transparent bits which go into the lenses. There are other luxury items with waiting lists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaPassion Posted January 22, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 22, 2011 Like others have said, shop around. In the U.S., I have purchased the 35 cron, 50 lux, and 90 cron, all new, all latest versions, in the last 6 weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
57andrew Posted January 22, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 22, 2011 In HK lenses are available only if you are willing to pay a premium over list. Great for the dealers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 22, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 22, 2011 In HK lenses are available only if you are willing to pay a premium over list. Great for the dealers. A far cry from 2006 when you could buy from the likes of HK Supplies at a substantial discount on list. Five years on and the Leica lens price inflation makes those prices a distant dream. We don't really know where the bottleneck is in Leica lens production but with more than 20 lenses in the range and batch rather than serial production, that's one possible. Another is supply of glass. There are stories, for example, that one of the lens elements in the 50mm Summilux ASPH costs more than the other 6 put together. Another is that the glass for the (old, and why not the new?) Noctilux had to be cooled over 18 months to remove internal distortion-causing stresses. It seems that Leica uses the most exotic glasses which are inevitably in short supply and on long lead times. The original MATE was discontinued because the glass blanks for the front lens element were no longer available from Hoya. Then factor in European Health and Safety legislation and working with some materials becomes difficult if not impossible. It may just be that the choice of exotic materials and build processes compared to Nikon and Canon are what gives Leica glass its edge but that comes at a cost in terms of price and lead time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 22, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 22, 2011 While many of you seem happy with the situation, or think it foolish of Leica to scale up production, it's not exactly ideal is it, either for Leica or their customers. One London dealer complained to me that for a lot of his (fairly wealthy) customers, they walk into the shop to buy an M9, and want to pick up a couple of lenses to go with it. Most likely they'd buy a 35 and a 50, and due to the current position, ends up having only, at best, Summarits to offer. He loses income, the customer doesn't get what they wanted, Leica lose income. Maybe most of you guys are enthusiasts who will invest time in shopping around, waiting on a list etc. But a lot of Leica turnover is from the rich dabbler who may not even bother with buying an M9 without a nice fancy lens to go with it. I think most people would accept a degree of shortness of supply from a niche manufacturer, but it would appear that Leica keep on designing new lenses when they can't keep pace with demand for their core lenses, and when most UK dealers list EVERY Leica lens as Out Of Stock, then from a business point-of-view, Leica aren't exactly maximising their income, not looking like a terribly well-run company. Personally I'd love to see actual stock in Leica stores. You know, just waiting to bought be bought, like with other products, and it WILL make a difference to sales for Leica - as a trivial example I didn't consider an M9 until I could try one myself and take a few test shots - the net result being I'll shortly be buying one. I'm sure if lenses were sat there waiting to be bought, the total sales of lenses would be much higher too. Desirability may in some cases be related to supply, but Leica do actually need to sell stuff to stay in business..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 22, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 22, 2011 Of course, that's not really your point, is it? It's "I need a 50 asph now." Which is where pico's characterization comes in... I think my post was deleted. That's twice, now. Frank, just how $ much $ do you need that lens? As much as someone might need a triple bypass? How will your life be different with that lens? If you really want it, I am certain someone will part with one for the right price. Like this one: on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 22, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 22, 2011 While many of you seem happy with the situation... Sorry, I didn't intend my post to indicate I am accepting of the situation but I am not currently waiting on any product so am less affected by the shortage. If I see a 35mm Summilux 2 available at some point, I will probably buy but my life is not on hold until that day. I don't pretend to understand the economics of lens production but your comments ring true. Leica could increase revenue and especially profit by more closely meeting demand. There must be a certain reticence in Solms to do this - buy more lens grinding machines, place larger forward orders for machined parts and glass, install new and better production lines and train more people how to assemble the lenses - in case the demand turns out to be temporary. The Leica lens folklore continues with the claim that they have not been able to automate the process of painting the edges of lenses black, instead relying on women who are not allowed to drink coffee for breakfast in case the caffeine gives them the jitters. No word on what effect the wind from the wurst for lunch has on lens quality... It's a nice story but seems unlikely. Leica went to the brink of bankrupcy in 2004 and, compared to investing, say, €1m on a new lens griding machine, churning out a few fancy-dressed up cameras must seem a safer route. That said, we do not know where the real bottleneck is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 22, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 22, 2011 Leica went to the brink of bankrupcy in 2004 and, compared to investing, say, €1m on a new lens griding machine, churning out a few fancy-dressed up cameras must seem a safer route. That said, we do not know where the real bottleneck is. You might not have heard of it, but Leica mentioned among other causes a shortage of the special glasses needed for the lenses. In case you didn't hear this, either, since 2004 they brought two new camera models to market which was an investment of even more than 1M€. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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