tom0511 Posted January 23, 2007 Share #21 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am using the 21-35 since a year now and had never any probelm to focus. Also of course not with the 19 !!! Â Well, you seem to be better at manual focus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 23, 2007 Share #22  Posted January 23, 2007 I agree Peter the F2 is not the travel lens of choice for sure and the 2.8 version is very very good. i just don't have the heart to sell that one and i just love the look of it so i will suffer the back ache for it. I sold the 280 mm f4 to cheap, needed money for the M8 at the time but I think i got 3200 for it. This is really one killer lens and if can get one , do it. Can't recommend this lens enough  Keep the 2/180 !!!! I owned it once and I regret I ever sold it. But get an additional 2.8/180APO, this you will love.  Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share #23 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Guy, Â as you know I have also the 280/4 Apo, but it's at Solms now for adjustment... bad boy... Â So my setup is just like yours, we need the 28-90 and we are looking for a 180 Apo-Summicron (me) and 280 Apo-Telyt (you)... I have less M-lenses, 15 CV, 21 asph (which I think I'll sell to fund the 180/2), 28/2, 50 asph and 90 Apo, but I'm happy with this setup. Â It's only that with time I'm more and more a prime guy... while zooms are very convenient for landscape, I'm convinced that a prime has always a bit more clarity, the only exception (from what I saw) being the 35-70/2.8 Elmarit. Giving I have the 50/2 and 100 Apo-macro, I'm wondering if simply adding a 28 ROM makes more sense... How does the 28-90 compare with the primes in its range ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share #24 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Peter, Â I realize the 180 Apo-Summicron is not a 'travel' lens, but it's not so uncomfortable to use handheld as its apperence suggests. On the contrary it seems very well balanced on the DMR. Â The Apo-Elmarit is way lighter/smaller, but IMO it is not much easier to handhold, giving it's 1 stop slower and its lighter mass deosn't counteract the vibrations the way the Apo-Sumicron does. The Apo-Telyt 180, which is even lighter and with less good ergonomics, is even slightly worse indeed. Â IMO any lens longer than 100mm should be adequately heavy (about 1-1.5 kg) in order to be comfortably, or better 'effectively' used handheld. IS lenses are obviously an exception... Â The Apo-Summicron has also an integrated tripo-collar which makes the use of a monopod more comfortable. Burzynski made a great tripod-collar for the Apo-Elmarit, but I don't know if it is discontinued (Isarfoto, the only distributor, said that they need to ask him). Â I'm testing a 180 Apo-Elmarit these days (but the ugly weather doesn't help...) and by preliminar results I find it a bit "flat" compared to the 180 Apo-Telyt. It's super-sharp, but it seems to lack the outstanding threedimensional look of the Apo-Summicron, even the Apo-Telyt has maybe more 'Leica look'. I never used the 180/2, but all the images I've seen are sensational, at any aperture. Â Peter, giving you have owned both the Apo-Elmarit and Apo-Summicron, did you find any difference in image quality and fingerprint ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 23, 2007 Share #25 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Marco, Â I really loved the 2/180 !!! It produces superb pictures, extremely sharp and also excellent 3 dimensionality. Although I must admit I only used it on film, because this was back in 1999. The 2.0 is great to hold and work with, it is very handy, but if I thing I need to cary this baby around a whole day I do not like that anymore - maybe it is becoming older and more lazy. Â The 2.8/180APO I find very similar to the 2.0, of course it is a stop slower and you cannot get the creative DOF of the 2.0. So for me the 2.8 is the perfect lens. Â If I could find a cheap used 2.0 in good condition I must admit I would buy it in addition to what I own. Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 23, 2007 Share #26 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Giving I have the 50/2 and 100 Apo-macro, I'm wondering if simply adding a 28 ROM makes more sense... How does the 28-90 compare with the primes in its range ? Â The 28mm elmarit-R is one of the best 28mm Leica lenses. I think only the 28mm Summicron ASPH for the M is better. It is also small and light. Prior to getting the 21-35mm, I shot most travel/scenic with 28mm, 35-70mm F4, and 105-280mm. There is nothing you could not get with that combo. Â I also had the 19mm but sold it as it was seldom used. I later bought it back from the guy I sold it to when he went Canon digital a few years back. The 19mm has proven much more useful on the DMR than on film. Although, back in film days, I shot people shots mostly with the M6 and I had the wides there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share #27 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you guys, Â I have to rationalize my choices... on the M8 I've finally settled on 15 CV, 28/2, 50/1.4 asph and 90/2 Apo (maybe I'll add later a 90/4 macro). On the DMR I have 35-70/4, 100 Apo-Macro, 180/3.4 Apo and 280/4 Apo, plus 1.4x Apo. Â Getting the 19 Elmarit and the 180 Apo-Summicron ('maybe' keeping also the small 180 Apo-Telyt) I'd be covered from effective 20mm to over 500mm and both systems would be relatively independent each other, meaning I wouldn't always need to bring both systems (considering that rangefinders aren't suited for anything longer than 100mm). Â Now I'm feeling like a real gearhead... Back to save the money... sell that damned Canon gear.... then get this damned Leica gear... and then back to use it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 23, 2007 Share #28  Posted January 23, 2007 The 28mm elmarit-R is one of the best 28mm Leica lenses. I think only the 28mm Summicron ASPH for the M is better. It is also small and light. Prior to getting the 21-35mm, I shot most travel/scenic with 28mm, 35-70mm F4, and 105-280mm. There is nothing you could not get with that combo. I also had the 19mm but sold it as it was seldom used. I later bought it back from the guy I sold it to when he went Canon digital a few years back. The 19mm has proven much more useful on the DMR than on film. Although, back in film days, I shot people shots mostly with the M6 and I had the wides there.  Robert,  what do you actually think about the 105-280 ? I still have the option to get it for a good price, but feel it is very bulky and heavy.  Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 23, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Marco, why get the 19R? I think the CV15, 21/2.8 Asph is a better combo on the M8. Lighter, at least as sharp, wider... If you really want to buy R lenses, consolidate you wide-angles on the M, the teles on the R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rljones Posted January 23, 2007 Share #30 Â Posted January 23, 2007 I've had the 15, 19, 21-35, 28/2.8, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 60M, 80, 35-70, both 180 APOs, 280 APO, 80-200/4 (latest). Â I've sold the 15, 19 (one I'd bought from Guy), 28, 35, and 50. I prefer using the 21-35 zoom and don't miss the slight difference. When I travel light, I only take all 3 zooms. They are that good. I even like the macro capability of the 35-70. (This lens should be labeled 'ASPH' because it has one aspherical element. If it had, I bet more people would have held onto it. It is a wonderful lens.) Â I rarely use the 280/2 and prefer to take the 180/2.8 for most portraits. (I may sell it too.) Â From the original posted question, I kept the 35-70 and skipped the 28-90; buy the 21-35 and skip the 19. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share #31 Â Posted January 23, 2007 Carsten, Â while I like my 21 asph, I prefer to keep the M setup simple. I initially though to use the DMR only for longer focal lenghts, but this way I have always to bring the M8 plus a couple of lenses (28 and 15). Getting the 19 will cover almost all my wideangle needs on the DMR and it fits well in the 15-28 hole when I can bring also the M8. _______ Â Robert, Â thanks for your input. I have and love the 35-70/4, which is indeed an underrated lens, probably because it doesn't cost a fortune... But I think I'll go for the 19 instead of the 21-35. Â Anyway I'm interested in your 180 Apo-Summicron! Drop me a note if you are thinking to sell it in the very near future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 24, 2007 Share #32  Posted January 24, 2007 What i really want to get to is get my 280 f4 back , 180 F2 and the 28-90 , my Oly 24mm shift for the DMR and than on the M side my 15,21,28,35,50,75 and 90 covers all the primes and wide stuff. That to me is a nice overall setup and probaly more than I truly need butI have everything covered Hey Guy  Based on your recommendations (quite awhile back now) I bought the 280 f4, and the 180 2.0. I have never looked back as these lenses are truly spectacular. Many thanks to you.  I would recommend to others that they purchase these lenses NOW. When the R10 comes out and all those who sold their R Glass to fund the M8 purchase will be rushing back to get that great glass back, the prices will surely go astronomic, similar to what happened to M lenses when the M8 was announced.  Just my humble opinion  Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 24, 2007 Share #33  Posted January 24, 2007 Robert,  what do you actually think about the 105-280 ? I still have the option to get it for a good price, but feel it is very bulky and heavy.  Peter  No doubt it is bulky and heavy. Can't escape physics! But if you want flexibility over this range, and you want the image quality of Leica glass this, or a number of primes, is your only choice. You could buy the 70-180 which is a truly spectacular lens and the 280 F4 prime to get the job done. Shooting telephoto is a weight carrying experience, no doubt. Or you could forget about weight altogether and buy into the modular Telyt system. just budget for a Sherpa and you are home free.  Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 24, 2007 Share #34  Posted January 24, 2007 Robert,  what do you actually think about the 105-280 ? I still have the option to get it for a good price, but feel it is very bulky and heavy.  Peter  Peter:  I had the 105-280mm and the 80-200mm f4. after comparing the two on slide film, I decided to keep the 105-280mm. It very high edge contrast in the longer range and gives the images that special Leica look.  It is a great lens for scenics where you are using a tripod. I have had mine for about eight years and use it a lot for travel/scenic photography. A lot of the scenic stuff I shoot is taken not too far from where the car is parked, so weight is not a problem.   Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 24, 2007 Share #35  Posted January 24, 2007 Robert,  what do you actually think about the 105-280 ? I still have the option to get it for a good price, but feel it is very bulky and heavy.  Peter  I have one and prefered it to the 280/4.0, because the size/weight is not that much different and you get the 105-279 range additional. My sample is a very sharp lens. I have never experienced the 280/4.0 though.  I have to say that I prefer the handling of the short/thick 180/2.0 vs the handling of the long 105-280 though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdb Posted January 24, 2007 Share #36  Posted January 24, 2007 In my opinion, the combination of 19, 28-90 and 180 (maybe with the 2xtender) is the most gratifying for the DMR. I used to have it and it made me the happiest photographer ever... But all this equipment is now in somebody else's hands.  Until now, I bought the 90 AA Summicron anf the 180 Apo Elmarit, and I am waiting for the R10. But if it is not released before 2009, I might get another R9/DMR combo... When you are over 60, you realize that life goes faster and faster...  Cheers Gérard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share #37 Â Posted January 24, 2007 How does the 105-280 exactly weigh ? The only specs I saw (not from Leica) reports a weight not very different from the 280/4 Apo (about 100g more). It seems quite a bit longer, but for a zoom with similar aperture it's really not bad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted January 24, 2007 Share #38 Â Posted January 24, 2007 I have the 19 and the 28-90. I also use my 28PC frequently as well as a 100MACRo and the 50 f/1.4 for low light situations. I keep the 70-180 and 2x for my telelphoto work. I am eyeing a 280 f/4 and will hopefully get it soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 24, 2007 Share #39 Â Posted January 24, 2007 How does the 105-280 exactly weigh ?The only specs I saw (not from Leica) reports a weight not very different from the 280/4 Apo (about 100g more). It seems quite a bit longer, but for a zoom with similar aperture it's really not bad... Â The 105-280mm is very similar in size to the 280mm f4 APO. It is probably about the same diameter and just a cm or two longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 24, 2007 Share #40  Posted January 24, 2007 Based on our discussions here I decided to stop selling my 19 and will additionally buy the 28-90, so I have then all 3 - the 19, 21-35 and 28-90. I can then wait and see if I need the 221-35 and if it stays always home I can sell it then.  Thanks for all your input  Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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