Gossen Color-Pro 3F - anyone using this color meter?

[sean_reid]

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Hi Sean

Thanks for the welcome. I don't typically shoot raw for most events, which is why the color meter has appeal. Sean I am afraid raw is not a viable workflow for the kind of volume we create. In addition, it only takes one assistant to forget to white balance and it stuffs up the consistency.

Also, Carl I really appreciate the heads up about the differences in the Minolta meters, and looking alike etc. I like Minolta meters, prefer sekonic, but don't think they make a color meter. I am adverse to technology that is no longer supported like Minolta (apart from the hero in Ca who will indeed be busy for a long long time. I will keep researching, but am leaning towards the color-pro 3f.

Cheers

Karen

 

Got it. In that case, the color meter workflow might strike a good balance between speed and better consistency. Good luck.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[Eikonphoto]

Sean

Thanks for sticking in the thread. I originally thought about it because on one of my assistants cameras I actually had to ball park what I thought would be the best color temp for him. Not so scientific .... and now bring the otherwise lovely M8 in to the picture and it's a worse mess.

Thanks again, I wish I could find one to rent for a week, just to see how much more accuracy and speed I can get.

[sean_reid]

Hi Karen,

 

Not that one would want to do this all the time but you could order one from B&H, handle it with kid gloves while you try it for a couple days, and return it if it wasn't working out.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[AlanG]

Are you only shooting under daylight, flash, and tungsten? (e.g. sources with a continuous spectrum?) Don't expect reliable results using a color meter with fluorescent, sodium vapor, mercury vapor or any other source that has color spikes. And if you are mixing say tungsten with flash, then the meter info will only be useful at a given shutter speed.

 

I do agree with the person who posted that the information you enter from the meter will have different meaning to each camera. You probably know this, but the best solution is to use one brand and model of camera if you want things to match. I know a wedding shooter who does this with three identical Canon D20s plus one Canon 5D. She gets very consistent results.

 

I think the meter could get you pretty close, but you'll have to use it carefully and extensively. Plus you better do a lot of testing.

 

I don't know what kind of work flow you have, but I shoot moderate size projects in RAW (1000 images or so.) and have no difficulty outputting them quickly with C1. (The Quickproof feature makes this go very fast.) For me, RAW would be easier and much more reassuring. And the results surely will be better. I can't imagine trying to shoot and make sure the color metering and balance on several cameras is correct. (Unless you can just set this once at the start and then leave it.)

 

There is an article in a magazine called "After Capture" where Dennis Reggie describes his work flow using C1 and a typical shoot of 3500 images. (The magazine is the flip side of "The Rangefinder.") This is his standard modus operandi but he is testing other methods too. I think he wants to switch over to Lightroom. (can't recall.)

 

If you did go the RAW route with C1, you could set up profiles for each camera that would come close to matching them to each other. It would be irrelevant what any of your assistants did with the color balance as you could group each similar scene and color balance all of those images at once in C1.

[nzav]

Since I am involved in much more than color calibration, it is important for me to use a true 18% gray reference; the WhiBal cards did not offer this the last time I checked. Many "18% gray" targets are really off the mark when tested, I mentioned a few products that deliver what they claim in their specs.

[Eikonphoto]

Thanks for the help. As far as volume Alan, 160,000 ++ frames pa, just on weddings. That does not include personal work, corp portrait etc. And there are some real storage/backup issues with that, even shooting jpeg.

In terms of shooting all the same cameras ..... I am not likely to buy my assistants D2x's and/or a set of M8's. Apart from selling my house to to do that, I prefer that my assistants shoot cameras with which they are familiar. The light sources I work in are ..... all of the ones mentioned at different times and mixtures, and it is exactly that issue that I would like the color meter to help address. I will order one from B&H and let you know how it goes.

I think it's great that Denis Reggie is putting together a workflow, but I can't help but wonder when the last time he sat down to process 3500 images was.

[marknorton]

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Karen, it's interesting to read of your almost industrial scale of image creation which sends a clear message to Leica that if the camera is ever going to become the tool of choice for professional photographers, it has to be able to deliver outstanding JPEG quality. I'm still hopeful they will sort out the AWB in the camera but until then, the Gossen is allowing me to get consistent - and accurate - WB.

 

I'll look forward to hearing how you get on with it.

[AlanG]

I think it's great that Denis Reggie is putting together a workflow, but I can't help but wonder when the last time he sat down to process 3500 images was.

 

By the way, I made a mistake. He uses DPP not C1.

 

His wrokflow is very established and well outlined in the article. He says that the process of editing and adjusting 3500 files takes about 4 hours. The conversions are done in the evening. I think it would be faster and easier in C1 as I also have experience with DPP.

 

He said that he shoots 3500 photos and then quickly edits it down to 250 to show the client. With my computer, I could color balance and make Quickproofs of 250 images in about an hour or two. (Especially since the color balance and exposure will be the same on many images.)

 

The reason I know this is a couple of times a year I shoot a lifestyle advertising job in Atlanta - many different setups - about 1000 images of families and kids. I can have that shoot edited, adjusted, and proofed on the flight back to DC.

 

I know I'm probably driving you crazy with this, but how is the editing of jpegs faster than editing raw files? (I don't convert the files before editing them.) C1 has a great way of editing selects by using the backspace key to send them to a "Move to" folder. And proofing (converting to small jpegs or tiffs) a few hundred images is pretty quick. Maybe 5 seconds each in C1. Surely you have to adjust some of those jpegs too. A lot of us started out shooting jpegs and then moved to Raw.

 

Back to meters. I used the Minolta Color Meter II and flash sensor for many years for my architectural work. I think it will get you close if you are careful and test the response of each camera. It was not accurate enough with discontinuous spectrum sources for my requirements of exacting 4x5 chromes, but it will get you in the ball park with those lights too.

[Eikonphoto]

Alan

No worries ...... not making me crazier than I usually am. It's good to have one's established views challenged regularly. Interestingly I went the opposite direction. Started shooting raw and moved to jpeg. The more I shot, the more I realized that jpegs are a little bit like shooting chromes ..... not a lot of wiggle room. But like chromes, the more you shoot the better your accuracy gets.

What's mind blowing to me is that Dennis Reggie 1. frankly over shoots, and 2. apparently only pulls 250 images to show clients ..... that's less than 8%!!

In terms of adjusting, 250 does not take long, but that is not the quantity I work with.

One of the most valuable peices of software for me is the most recent version of Photo Mechanic. Absolutely can't say enough good things about it. And for the 'raw' shooters, it previews raw too

[AlanG]

I went the opposite direction. Started shooting raw and moved to jpeg. The more I shot, the more I realized that jpegs are a little bit like shooting chromes ..... not a lot of wiggle room. But like chromes, the more you shoot the better your accuracy gets.

 

Good for you. I felt that way when I shot jpegs too. But after all those years of shooting large format chromes and all of the bracketing, color filters, clip tests, etc. it is very liberating for me to be able to shoot raw and have the latitude of exposure and color. (More dynamic range too.)

[glenerrolrd]

That's why many of us recommend WhiBal.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

How consistent should we expect to get WB settings. Am I missing something? Today I did a series in the mountains....9am bright sunny day. Using M8/24/6 bit. Started with the expodisc..pointed at the sun(the light source). Lightroom shows 4700K , Hue adjustment of -15. Set manual white balance . Shot whibal to check results. Whibal adjustment to 5000K Hue -10. I think the whibal looks better. I shoot only raw so I can adjust in post processing. Is this a reasonable approach?

[Leicaiste]

During Photokina 2006, Kenko was showing the Konica-Minolta Color Meter IIIF under their own name : Kenko Color Meter KCM-3100.