richfx Posted January 16, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looking for guidance / recommendations on whether it makes practical sense to try Voigtlander's Nokton 50mm 1.1 for its appr. 1 stop advantage over my 50mm Summilux ASPH (new version). Is there a noticeable low light advantage over the Lux on the M9 and, if so, is the Nokton a one trick pony in this respect or can it be used to good effect as more of an everyday lens, taking into account its size and weight? Thanks, RIch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Hi richfx, Take a look here Ultra Fast Lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted January 16, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 16, 2011 You sau you DO HAVE a new Summilux asph... in this case, I'd say the interest for the Nokton is simply its 1 (about) stop more... no much, but be able to use, say, 1/60 instead of 1/30 in some situation in interiors can have a no negligible impact on the image, provided you can focus correctly, which at 1,1 is surely a not easy task. As an all-around lens... you have probably the best 50 one can have... no reason to look for else, unless one has a taste for the so called "creamy - not too contrast - not too sharp" effect which is typical of some "oldes" like Summar or Summitar f2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted January 18, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 18, 2011 Don't think I would "upgrade" a 50mm Summilux ASPH for a Nokton 1.1 exactly. However you are talking a lens 4 times more expensive, so forgetting "upgrading" to the nokton, lets say, it is a fast and fun lens with a bit of noise (almost grain like noise) in the defocus, it is fun to use for the simple reason it is fast, and stopped down it have a interesting portrait ability. I would think you might have fun with a slightly used lens at a reasonable price when you go for available darkness now and then. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 18, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 18, 2011 Hi There may be focus problems with the CV or Leica lens with a digital camera, aside from weight, and size. The super speed lenses also dont have the performance of slower lenses when stopped down, e.g. more veiling flare contra jour. But if you need speed you need speed. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humood Posted January 18, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 18, 2011 I tried a Zeiss ZM 50 f1.5 on my M9 while I was at a dealer in london, I am pretty sure I had my son's face in focus when I took the shot, the picture didn't come as sharp as I expected even though I switched lens detection to manual and selected the most appropriate lens, My camera focuses perfectly with my other Leica lenses! After getting my 50 Summilux my lust for a Noctilux has diminished! (and because I simply can't find the lens!) I am very happy with what I have got Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 18, 2011 You sau you DO HAVE a new Summilux asph... in this case, I'd say the interest for the Nokton is simply its 1 (about) stop more... no much, . I don't think it is one stop - the Nokton is closer to 1.2 or maybe less in real light transmission, whereas the Summilux is exceedingly close to its nominal speed. I would say the real difference is about 1/2 a stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 18, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) IMHO, it would be a waste of time and money to get the Nocton. You gain almost nothing but grief. F/.95 is your next step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 18, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 18, 2011 I don't think it is one stop - the Nokton is closer to 1.2 or maybe less in real light transmission, whereas the Summilux is exceedingly close to its nominal speed. I would say the real difference is about 1/2 a stop. Well cause the lux is such a small lens at /1.4 that would(might) only be true on axis, if you like vignetting this would not be a problem, cause the lux is slow in the corners, if you dont trust me you can look at the spec sheets. I've only got a f/1.5 Nokton but it does not seem detectably different from my lux on axis, although Puts (also) does says the /1.5 is only a /1.6 or less... I prefer the smaller lux cause it is smaller, dont use transparency film and dont mind the vignetting (most of time). It is difficult to get a /0.95 is the other problem, do not know how you got a asph lux either, a /1.1 is a shelf item, the 0.95 is excellent for shots of unicorns. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 18, 2011 It has nothing to with vignetting - and the Nokton is a champ in that respect too, as lens size is just one factor, there is the rest of the design as well-. It has to do with the light transmission through the glass, thickness of the elements and number of elements - oh yes and quality of the coating too. Plus a little white lie by the marketing department from time to time;) Nominal lens speed can be quite deceptive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 18, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 18, 2011 Hi If you take a shot with a pre asph or asph lux at /1.4 then if you need /1.4 on the axis and in the corners then the vignetting does matter. I accept you may be able to photo shop the corners, otherwise they are only f/2.8 (or less) in corners. This vignetting is a resonable compromise e.g. I only use my /1.5 when this might be annoying, cause it is so mugh larger and seems heavier, it too vignettes... The designer introduces vignetting to keep the performance off axis sensibly constant, this also allows the lens elements and lens to be smaller and lighter. It does leave a strange boke off axis as well, if you were worried about such things... Some of the CV lenses do vignette a lot wide open but some Leica lenses do as well... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 18, 2011 All lenses vignette more or less, especially wideangles. That is simple geometry. But it has abolutely nothing to do with the light transmission factor of a specific lens, which may vary between say - 90 % and nearly 100%. The point is that the aperture as engraved on the lens is a mathematical value - diameter/focal length, whereas the light transmission factor reduces the "brightness"of the lens by a certain amount, reducing the total lens speed, sometimes considerably by up to half a stop or even more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 18, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 18, 2011 Hi If you take a shot with a pre asph or asph lux at /1.4 then if you need /1.4 on the axis and in the corners then the vignetting does matter. I accept you may be able to photo shop the corners, otherwise they are only f/2.8 (or less) in corners. This vignetting is a resonable compromise e.g. I only use my /1.5 when this might be annoying, cause it is so mugh larger and seems heavier, it too vignettes... The designer introduces vignetting to keep the performance off axis sensibly constant, this also allows the lens elements and lens to be smaller and lighter. It does leave a strange boke off axis as well, if you were worried about such things... Some of the CV lenses do vignette a lot wide open but some Leica lenses do as well... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 18, 2011 Yes- most 35 mm lenses vignette wide open to an extent of between 2 and 3 stops, even the newest aphericals. That is totally normal. The Oof rendering ( bokeh if you will), however, is influenced by other optical errors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 18, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 18, 2011 The point is that the aperture as engraved on the lens is a mathematical value - diameter/focal length, whereas the light transmission factor reduces the "brightness"of the lens by a certain amount, reducing the total lens speed, sometimes considerably by up to half a stop or even more. Which is why some (all?) cinema lenses are labelled with 'T' stops which is based on the light transmission rather than calculated aperture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to stay with my 35m Summilux ASPH II. I may rent the Nokton 1.1 just to compare both, but I suspect that the difference wide open will be less discernible than the overall IQ and performance of the lenses. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted January 27, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 27, 2011 Rich, I have a 50 Lux ASPH, which has been to Solms in a 6 weeks trip recently. It is now adjusted, coded and in mint condition. I loved that lens before I shipped it. It has been my favorite on the M6, the R-D1 and later on the M8.2. When it was away, I looked eagerly for a substitute 50mm, tried out small compact size (50 Summarit), exotics (Canon) and superspeed (Nokton 1.1 and Noctilux f1). When I saw the first frames from the Noctilux, it hit me. I bought the lens directly the next day (a very close stomach decision between a new 1.1 Nokton and a mint f1 Noctilux) and I am extremely happy with the Noctilux. It is now my mainly used lens, everyday on the camera. It has completely pushed the 50 Lux ASPH aside, even, when it came back as new from Solms. I seldom touch the Lux anymore. I am still in love with the Noctilux (not for it's reported signature character and thin dof, but it's eternal beauty of rendering very fine detail in a very, very special way). The Noctilux gives especially people a very natural, alive look, the Lux ASPH just can't do. The Noctilux is very heavy and big compared to any normal RF lens in this focal length (not talking 75 Lux here) - this is not an issue for me, as I handle SLRs as well. It asks for a very different approach in focussing (slow focus needs a lot more involvement and anticipation of the photographer, to not end up unprepared @ ∞, when a subject runs into you @ 1m). It has optical flaws, where the 50 Lux ASPH is just technically perfect, but one thing, the Noctilux really does is: It indeed gives you more light. You get higher shutter speeds or important with the digital Ms, a lower ISO value to shoot with. On a annual dinner some weeks ago, I shot for about 2 hours portraits and interactions of colleagues and employees. I used mostly ISO 640 − 1250, f1 - f2 and shutter speeds from 1/60 − 1/125. The Lux would have made me compromise much more on the exposures. I had not one photograph, that has had to be discarded due to focus errors for small prints. More than 50% of the shots were spot on with focus. The main issue though was, to fight with thin dof, positioning myself always into places, I could bring several subjects eyes into the thin dof. I see adding a Noctilux to one's arsenal not as a financial challenge other than the initial investment. I see the several Noctilux versions only growing in value. If you do not damage or loose the lens, you most likely get your money back, if must. I am not so sure about the CV offerings or other "more unstable" exotics. I do have a gain in freedom of exposures. I am happy, to pay with bulk and weight (both manageable) for it. Viewfinder obstruction with an RF is a non issue for me, as I can anticipate framing. In my daily use of the Noctilux I use it as an equivalent of a DSLR superzoom - it works from f1 all the way to the smallest apertures, from close focus to infinity, is very flare resistant in low light and just works. I suppose, the 0.95 version is technically improved, but almost double as expensive and hardly available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted January 27, 2011 Thanks much, Dirk. Very interesting perspective, especially from someone who has already shot with the 50mm Summilux ASPH. You've piqued my curiosity about the Noctilux. Oh, no....this could be expensive. Have you shot with the .95 version? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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