pridbor Posted January 14, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I went through a number of threads in this forum and found that I must be a real novice by comparison to "you folks here"!!! One post listed persons who shot 300+ rolls of film in a year, and there were quite a number of you. I haven't shot more than one roll in 3 years, and that was just a week ago. Another observation which was somewhat a heartbreaking piece of information was that the R is considered a dead end, like most people think the film cameras are to begin with. The reason for my heartbreak is that I have an R3 and recently acquired an R4 from my uncle, and I really hate to think that these excellent devices are dead. I have used digital cameras the last many years, OK I'm an amateur, and lately (last 4-5 years) the only reason not to be completely embarrassed is that I have been using Panasonic with Leica optics. Again on my uncle's recommendation. And now I come to the real purpose for me even being here, a question regarding my R4. It has a mode called "P" which states that it, I think, automatically adjusts both Aperture and Time. I understand that "A" automatically adjusts time, but I have no idea how it does it or even if my understanding is correct. Could someone please advise me? Sorry for the long diatribe but I wanted to set the stage for my ignorance. Preben in LA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Hi pridbor, Take a look here "Newbie to Leica". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 14, 2011 Hi, The R system isn't dead, but it is discontinued. That doesn't mean that we can't continue using our R cameras and lenses for a long time yet! Neither is film dead, far from it! I use film mostly and digital for some stuff where I only want images for the web or need instant results. Re your query yes P stands for program mode. The R4 like your R3 has aperture priority and manual modes, plus shutter priority and program or full auto. There is a site where you can download a free user manual, google R4 instructions to find it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted January 14, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 14, 2011 Do the cameras work? Do the lenses you have for them work? Can you get film for them? If you answered yes to all three questions, your cameras are not dead. What people mean when they say the R system is dead is that Leica has decided not to produce a digital R and is no longer producing R lenses or accessories. This does not mean existing R cameras and lenses are a dead end. In fact, they are some of the best values on the used camera market today. You're lucky to have two excellent cameras. Load some film in them and go shoot some photos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norgas_co Posted January 14, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 14, 2011 Frankly aggravating how many toss that "dead" term loosely. As if it were some last generation electronic gadget that no longer has compatible software to allow function or batteries that match. The other mention is that "dead end" system. R system has a full line of lenses and accessories that were made for it. A lot you can still easily acquired in the used market. On top of which, there is undoubtably a good number of unused NIB items out there that has been stored in temp and humidity controlled collections; which surface in the market time to time. Yes new production has ceased but anyone who has interest in entering to R's should not be discouraged from the experience IMO. R's were my entry into the Leicas almost 30yrs ago and I hope that any new batch of potential enthusiasts get to enjoy the same journey. Pridbor, you are lucky to have an uncle who advises you. I hope you continue on. Btw "P" for program adjusts the speed and aperture. Like on a dslr, only without autofocus and SD card So just focus, compose and click! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted January 14, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 14, 2011 Preben, For P mode to work as designed on the, R4 Leica recommends you set the aperture to the smallest f-stop the lens offers (f16 or f22). The camera then adjusts the shutter speed and aperture as you release the shutter. Setting the aperture to f16/22 is necessary to give the camera the full range of apertures t chose from. In A mode you set the aperture and the camera selects the shutter speed according to what the meeter thinks is correct (18% gray and all that). Here is a link to a pdf of the R4 user's guide Enjoy you cameras! Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pridbor Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted January 14, 2011 I must confess I got a little down when reading the posts. When I said newbie then it's more in terms of using the cameras. I bought the R3 back in 1976 or so and used it a bit, not like many of you of course, but the R4 is a more recent thing 2 years ago. And yes the cameras are both in very good shape, lenses too (2 x 50, 60, and 90 Summicron, and 35 Elmarit) and Lumix DMC TZ10 The other thing I got from many of the threads here which made a bit sad was the M vs R or SLR comments. I should like for you to point me to a place where I can read objectively why so many seem to think more highly of the M. Not that I wouldn't agree but I just don't know why. And while I'm at it where do I find a discussion on the Film vs Digital. I seem to have heard that film still has a higher dynamic range in color??? And yes my uncle has an M7 too Do you gents get CDs with your development and use the digitized images at lest to sort out which are good? Thanks all I do think that I will get back to film even though it seems to be a wee more expensive than digital, and time etc Preben P.S. The reason I didn't quite know if the aperture really is controlled by the camera in "P" mode is/was that use a lot of force to engage the"Schaerfentiefetaste" (don't know the English word for it) lever next to the lens, and was wondering how/what would cause the movement of the blades when taking a picture, as it doesn't take a lot to depress the button for a "shot". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted January 14, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) As a user of both M and R systems, the objective reason I prefer the M is that the cameras and lenses are very compact, allowing me to carry more equipment. I also find it easier to focus a rangefinder precisely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 14, 2011 Some answers to your questions. The other thing I got from many of the threads here which made a bit sad was the M vs R or SLR comments. I should like for you to point me to a place where I can read objectively why so many seem to think more highly of the M. Not that I wouldn't agree but I just don't know why. Mostly snobbery! Some will argue that the M is the only true Leica, and that M lenses are better - this is partly true, but only insofar as the latest newer designs, the R lenses are very good indeed many being famed Mandler designs. Personally I use both M and R systems, they're different tools and both have particular uses. They complement each other. And while I'm at it where do I find a discussion on the Film vs Digital. I seem to have heard that film still has a higher dynamic range in color??? You don't want to go there! Every Film - v - Digital thread ends up in a mud slinging match. Those who have gone digital and consider film as 'dead' just won't accept any point of view that doesn't agree with theirs, that digital is superior in every way. Die hard film users will poo poo digital as the culinary equivalent to a McDonalds, fast, cheap, convenient, but basically pretty dreadful. I shoot both, but I much prefer film for the quality, the way of working, the variety of different 'effects' from different films (which the digital fanatics will claim they can replicate in photoshop, but they'll also spend 10K on a Noctilux, the effect of which they should also be able to replicate in photoshop!). Again, like an M and SLR, both have there place today and just consider them as different mediums, not better or worse. Do you gents get CDs with your development and use the digitized images at lest to sort out which are good? I shoot traditional B&W film or C41 Colour neg or B&W C41 film such as XP2. I process my own traditional B&W, it's very quick and very simple. With C41 I do just as you say - have the film processed and a CD scan (no prints). I use the CD as a proof sheet then rescan the keepers at home. I print at home or sometimes, especially for B&W, have a proper wet print made. Thanks all I do think that I will get back to film even though it seems to be a wee more expensive than digital, and time etc With all of that equipment you'd be daft not to! If you have only been shooting digital recently I think you will have a very nice surprise, although it make take a roll or two for you to get back into it, as I said above they are different mediums. Do return and post some of your results in the photo forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 14, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 14, 2011 Hi When you get old it is more difficult to use a SLR, cause of your eyesight. A SLR is better for visualising senics or long shots, but has more to go wrong internally. Film has a different way of degrading upon over exposure or underexposure, some people prefer that, for subjective reasons. Lots of us survive on expired film, bargin offers, ex-surveliance and ex-cine film, a lot cheaper. There is a group who use mono ex cine for the '60 B movie effect. You can get the kit to process your own mono or color in bath room, your partner in life/family need to know this is better than hanging out in red light district/bar... The kit can be got cheap 2nd hand or free for someone whos is going digital. Expect to take flack from onlookers who detect the memory cards you are swapping are not digital. Dont worry about the R, for a long time M and LTM users were dependent on Leitz now there are lots of alternatives, this has not changed the kit in gbag. The camera maintenance people will be able to keep you going. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pridbor Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted January 14, 2011 I noticed that one can send individual "thank you" but I hate to flood an already buy internet with additional traffic, So thanks to you all for taking the time to educate and encourage me to get back wit film THANKS Preben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
storybrown Posted January 16, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 16, 2011 preben, Just flip Dick off - film is not a "dead end," wunnerful as digital surely is. The Leica Rs, over expensive when offered, are all of them more or less state of the art film SLRs, esp the R8 & 9, and the R lenses of any age are and always have been world class lenses. (The leicaflexe chatlist - check out leicareflex.freelists.org - has a good current thread on this.) Don't be distracted - these are the best buys in the film market today. Just get some R lenses, be patient & practice, practice, practice. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pridbor Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted January 16, 2011 Thanks once more. I just figured out that the "thank you button" causes just a short message to be added to the thread, learning something new every day. I tried it on just one post, so please don't be offended as I didn't just want to go back and "tag" all posts with a thank you notice. ANYWAY, I took a roll of film today and what a DISASTER. Clearly my fault, but I'm puzzled as to what went wrong as I tried hard to do it right. Let me preface it with the fact that my first roll went splendidly! just a week ago. So I must have done something wrong. Now I don't know (yet) how to upload an image for your critique but I will try to figure it out asap. One think which you may tell me was absolutely stufid, and I will agree with you, was that I most likely useda roll of film which was more the 5 years old and not in the fridge. The other thing I can think of is that I used a 90 mm lens instead of the 50 I normally use, and lastly I think my finger must have slipped and set the mode to "T" from the "P" I started out with. But I have started so I will persist (although I will be going to Switzerland for a month without the camera "Rs" that is. Thanks once more for you comments and encouragements Preben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen in Montreal Posted January 16, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 16, 2011 Some answers to your questions. The other thing I got from many of the threads here which made a bit sad was the M vs R or SLR comments. I should like for you to point me to a place where I can read objectively why so many seem to think more highly of the M. Not that I wouldn't agree but I just don't know why. Mostly snobbery! Some will argue that the M is the only true Leica, and that M lenses are better - this is partly true, but only insofar as the latest newer designs, the R lenses are very good indeed many being famed Mandler designs. Personally I use both M and R systems, they're different tools and both have particular uses. They complement each other. When my 10 year old daughter can stand on a stool at the light table and pick the M slides from the Canon slides, it goes well beyond just "snobbery". pridbor, The M is a palette, a feel, that either appeals to you enough to justify the limitations or not. The are great cameras, great lenses, but they are not the exclusive answer to everything, but they sure shine in their niche! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pridbor Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted January 16, 2011 Here are 2 examples of my failed images, hope you might be able to shed a littlelight on what I'm doing wrong -- Preben Is it OK to make reference to one's own website? I have one for my sculptures, and it is mainly for this reason I use my camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! [/ATTACH] Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! [/ATTACH] ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/141640-newbie-to-leica/?do=findComment&comment=1559680'>More sharing options...
storybrown Posted January 16, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 16, 2011 Yes, Leica lenses are usually superior to Canon lenses, even Ls, which are notably superior to other Canon lenses, but this is just as true for R as for M lenses, nevermind the boxes. (Doug Herr has a nice post on this on the flexer list.) Still, it will usually come down to the shooter in any case, though, so there's no way around the fact that practice turns out to be over time more important than equipment (often also luck). Since the OP already has a great start, working thru some rolls of film ought to be the main thing on the agenda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted January 16, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 16, 2011 Here are 2 examples of my failed images, hope you might be able to shed a littlelight on what I'm doing wrong -- Preben Is it OK to make reference to one's own website? I have one for my sculptures, and it is mainly for this reason I use my camera. If these two were shot with the R4 I'd check the light seals around the hinged back door. They tend to turn into sticky goo with time and need to be replaced. There should be seals around the window that shows the film cassette as well as in the groove where the back door closes to the body and on the back door it self by the hinges. Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismon Posted January 16, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 16, 2011 There's certainly nothing wrong with using a "discontinued" Leica. I've made a career using M cameras, but years ago a friend pointed out that one could purchase a Leicaflex Standard for a lot less than a Visoflex III, and the Flex often came with a Summicron that could match the DR-cron on my M3. One cam lenses were an absolute bargain compared to their multiple-cam versions. Don't knock discontinued. I use the M system most of the time, Leicaflex for long or close, but still prefer the models C and F for the pure Leica experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 16, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 16, 2011 When my 10 year old daughter can stand on a stool at the light table and pick the M slides from the Canon slides, it goes well beyond just "snobbery". niche! What's Canon got to do with it? The question is about the R series cameras and lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 16, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 16, 2011 Hi The problem may be a light leak (e.g. from seals as above) or flare from the 2nd lens, It does not liook like your fault. A film should be ok for five years, unless it is really hot where you live. The 9cm lens needs a hood even in perfect condition. You are too diffident you need to be positive, adventerous, and try things. We will all try and halp you. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pridbor Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted January 17, 2011 I think that replacing the rubber gaskets is an excellent idea, for both the R3 and R4, they are both, like me, a wee up in age ha ha I just spent an hour searching for a place selling Leica parts, to no avail! Anyone who can provide a link where I can get those gaskets? Thanks Preben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.