dickgrafixstop Posted January 9, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 9, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thom Hogan is a well known writer, photographer and "prognosticator" who annually forecasts the state of the photographic market. His comments for 2011 for Leica are copied here for your information. (Google "Thom Hogan 2011" for links to his complete article. "Leica. The easy parts are these: at least two more S mount lenses, at least two more M mount lens revisions. A follow-up to the X1, basically the same camera with a different lens (call it the X2, probably with a 35mm f/2 lens [the rich man's Sigma DP2]). I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a Leica variant of the GP-2, which basically gives Leica a modern interchangeable lens rangefinder-sized replacement, albeit a rebadged one. That would be a pretty good addition to their lineup, actually, but the real issue here is that Leica would need to get on the m4/3 lens bandwagon. Please! Pretty Please? A Leica prime line of 12mm, 14mm, 18mm, 25mm, 40mm would be so welcome by the m4/3 crowd it would be perpetually out of stock, even at Leica prices. But they won't do it (sorry about that sudden cold shower). They'll hold the fort: 2 M and 2 S lenses and an X2. Or maybe they'll expand slightly: I'm not sure if the X2 is this or not, but Leica will expand, adding a full frame compact (fixed lens) during the year. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Hi dickgrafixstop, Take a look here Thom Hogan 2011 Predictions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted January 9, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 9, 2011 FWIW, the article is at 2011 Predictions by Thom Hogan. Thanks for the heads-up, Dick. Of course, Leica has said they're not doing FourThirds. OTOH, we've all hoped for a couple things Thom is predicting. And Leica has explained why they won't be doing some of them. Anybody done a comparison--how well do his predictions generally work out? I like his comment for Dec 28 at http://www.bythom.com/: Just for the heck of it I've been doing a little informal study of several Internet forums. According to my latest weekly statistics, the D7000 now overexposes 78% less than it did two months ago, back focuses 70% less, and hot pixels are down an amazing 85%. The magic of information exchange on internet forums! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 9, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 9, 2011 In the predictions column under "Dirty secrets," Hogan says this is the year when manufacturers will start to come clean about ... alteration of raw files, manipulating gain factors, non-linear and error-prone ADCs, mismatching greens in Bayer filtration, and a host of other little things ... I think we're mostly aware of the first items, but can anyone tell me about "mismatching greens in Bayer filtration"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 9, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 9, 2011 Non-linear ADCs would actually be great; unfortunately they are quite linear as a rule. I don’t get the “mismatching greens in Bayer filtration” issue either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgrafixstop Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted January 9, 2011 The interesting part to me was the last half of the last sentence - predicting a full frame, fixed lens offering. Considering Leica offers a point and shoot in the $2000 price range, and the M9 with any lens approaches $10000, what price point do you think a fixed lens full frame point and shoot could command and would anybody but a "red dot" fanatic or collector buy one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 9, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 9, 2011 [...](Google "Thom Hogan 2011" for links to his complete article. "[...] but the real issue here is that Leica would need to get on the m4/3 lens bandwagon. Leica is already in the M43 market with lenses made by Panasonic, badged as Leica. Macro-Elmarit 45mm ASPH Vario-ELMARIT 14-50mm/ F2.8-3.5 ASPH D Summilux 25mm/ F1.4 ASPH and more to come, however Voigtlander is hot on their heels with the 25mm F 0.95 for starters. I have one and it is very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 9, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 9, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) If there was a fixed lens full frame camera with say a 35mm f2 lens at around £2,000 I'd be very interested - provided it had an optical viewfinder. Whether selling one camera would be enough for Leica to consider the idea is another matter <grin>. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 9, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 9, 2011 Leica is already in the M43 market with lenses made by Panasonic, badged as Leica. Leica has said time and again that they have zero interest in Micro FourThirds. Panasonic has got them to design one MFT lens, the DG Macro-Elmarit 45 mm, but that’s it. Leica won’t even mention that lens; as far as Leica is concerned it’s a Panasonic product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 9, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 9, 2011 If there was a fixed lens full frame camera with say a 35mm f2 lens at around £2,000 I'd be very interested - provided it had an optical viewfinder. Whether selling one camera would be enough for Leica to consider the idea is another matter <grin>. I guess it would be too small a niche even for Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 9, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 9, 2011 In the predictions column under "Dirty secrets," Hogan says this is the year when manufacturers will start to come clean about I think we're mostly aware of the first items, but can anyone tell me about "mismatching greens in Bayer filtration"? I think that it's got something to do with the covering on Jaap's M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 9, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 9, 2011 Leica has said time and again that they have zero interest in Micro FourThirds. Panasonic has got them to design one MFT lens, the DG Macro-Elmarit 45 mm, but that’s it. Leica won’t even mention that lens; as far as Leica is concerned it’s a Panasonic product. Panasonic once showed the lenses other than the Macro-Elmarit branded as Leica, but now I see they are branded Lumix in their online PDF. See this (scroll down). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 9, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 9, 2011 Panasonic shows the lenses branded as Leica. See this (scroll down). As you can plainly see there is a exactly MFT lens branded as Leica. There are older FourThirds lenses designed by Leica, dating back to the time when Leica was an active participant in the FourThirds system. But these days are gone, for Leicas as well as for Panasonic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 9, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 9, 2011 As you can plainly see there is a exactly MFT lens branded as Leica. There are older FourThirds lenses designed by Leica, dating back to the time when Leica was an active participant in the FourThirds system. But these days are gone, for Leicas as well as for Panasonic. I don't believe it. The literature I just got shows Leica branded lenses for Panasonic's new video camera. I'll post the pictures in a few minutes. EDIT - oops. Thanks for the correction, Michael. While Panasonic does show the Leica lenses for their AG-AF100, it is Leica's 4/3 and not the Micro 4/3. The 4/3 are to be used with an adapter. From Panasonic's current literature on the AG-AF100. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 10, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 10, 2011 ...I think we're mostly aware of the first items, but can anyone tell me about "mismatching greens in Bayer filtration"? Google magic: 4-color Bayer filter arrays: why? Solid state image sensors - Patent 7649560 rawtherapee.com :: View topic - e-p1 and demosaicing algo (new word for the day: "equilibration") Sony used a RGBC (red/green/blue + cyan - or "emerald" as their PR people called it) filter array in their 828 bridge camera (roughly contemporary with the Digilux 2) Sony DSC-F828 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 12, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 12, 2011 Sony used a RGBC (red/green/blue + cyan - or "emerald" as their PR people called it) filter array in their 828 bridge camera I remember that one and indeed it did a fine job of differentiating different shades of blue and green. But are you sure that’s what he meant? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 12, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 12, 2011 I remember that one and indeed it did a fine job of differentiating different shades of blue and green. But are you sure that’s what he meant? Who knows what Thom meant? But I don't think the fact that different companies use different colors in their sensors is news. Didn't Leica say the M9 sensor used a different red filter from that in the M8? How many articles have appeared on KammaGamma about the "Leica palette" and getting "Leica colors" from Nikons? So I think saying "mismatched greens" when you mean, "well, some manufacturers use different filters" strikes me as unlikely. That wouldn't be a "secret" that Hogan is party to in any case, since Andy needed only "Google magic" to find these references. Due thanks for the references, Andy. Interesting reading. My understanding "Bayer Filter" would preclude introduction of colors other than RGB. Maybe I'm wrong in that, but TH speaks of "mismatching greens in Bayer filtration." Anybody a member of the Thom Hogan club? Maybe we should ask him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 12, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 12, 2011 But are you sure that’s what he meant? Sure? No. But it is lumped with other intentional-but-undocumented manipulations of images in the camera/firmware as "dirty little secrets" - which to me implies a designed, intentional departure from the "pure" Bayer pattern (2 identical green pixels for each red and blue pixel) rather than, say, QC problems with getting consistent green filtering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 12, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 12, 2011 it is lumped with other intentional-but-undocumented manipulations of images in the camera/firmware as "dirty little secrets" - which to me implies a designed, intentional departure from the "pure" Bayer pattern (2 identical green pixels for each red and blue pixel) rather than, say, QC problems with getting consistent green filtering. Only there are no secrets, dirty or otherwise. Sony at the time made a big fuss about their non-Bayer pattern (only to dump it immediately after …), as did Kodak with their panchromatic pixels. In any case I suppose it’s just a conspiracy theory, but at least I would like to know which conspiracy theory – this seems to be one I’m not familiar with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 13, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 13, 2011 I emailed Thom Hogan the following: In your "dirty secrets" section, you mention "mismatching greens in Bayer filtration." Just curious, could you give some kind of insight as to what that comprises? His response (12.01.2011, 20.06.02 CST) was: Simple: it’s difficult to make the greens match the way that the Bayer layer is currently created. The RG row tends to have a slightly different green than the BG row. I responded thus: Are you saying that the current method of laying down filters when generating a sensor forces the green filters to a different formulation depending on the adjacent color? You speak of "the way ... the Bayer layer is currently created." That implies that a different construction method could solve the problem? This is the case, I take it, with all CMOS and CCD sensors, across the board, if they use the Bayer pattern? Very nice of him to take the time to respond, but the response just raised more questions in my mind. If someone can clarify, please do so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 13, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 13, 2011 Update: Thom Hogan's email response from Jan 13, 2011, 06:09 CST: Yes, a different construction method could solve the problem. I guess the next question would be: What are the commonalities in the production of all Bayer arrays which would lead to variances in green filtration? Have at it, technical conspiratorialists! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.