tdtaylor Posted January 6, 2011 Share #21 Posted January 6, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ok guys, I give I give... Leica wins. They can take as long as they want to produce their cameras and lenses. Has nothing to do with Leica wins. BTW, I am not a fanboy. But Nikon and Canon are mass producers, competing in their own arena. Nikon and Canon can fight it out, and Leica has fought for their niche market- all can succeed because they are different markets. Is Ferrari that worried about GM or Ford? Maybe they glance at the other, but each has different market issues to deal with in order to succeed. Don't forget, many forum members have extensive collections of Nikon and Canon equipment- I have much Nikon equipment, so of course I want Leica AND Nikon to be successful, and Canon to be nipping at their heels to keep them competitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Hi tdtaylor, Take a look here Leica Supply Chain Problems?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 6, 2011 Share #22 Posted January 6, 2011 Hello Noctilux4me, First & most importantly welcome to the Forum. This is an interesting place to be. It is made up of a diverse group of people from all over the World w/ a variety of opinions concerning matters both photographic & Otherwise. It is also a good place to find out information about many aspects of photography both digital & film as well as many other different fields allied & not. You will be continually pleasantly surprised @ the breadth & quality of information available here as well as the willingness of people here to share their knowledge. There may be some things concerning the production of cameras, lenses, etc made to somewhat more demanding levels than some others you may not have taken into consideration when you first began writing here. To begin with: Yes there are often really long lag times between appropriately expected availability of new & current models of equipment & delivery to people waiting. No question here. There are some reasons though. Leica is a smaller specialized producer of photographic instruments & accesories & as such has to depend on a variety of suppliers for both raw materials & components. Because this small size is coupled with a demand for higher than average quality levels this lessens the sources available & diminishes the choices when it does find a potential source to consider. This demand for higher quality also lessens the ability of even large producers to provide required materials. Don't forget if your demand multiplies for a highly specialized product no matter who you are you cannot necessarily provide the people w/ the years of experience required to manufacture what is needed now. This means there are often backlogs @ many steps along the way in terms of both raw materials such as specialized optical glasses made of often hard to come by materials as well as other components. The same with Leica itself. They cannot expand all aspects of production to meet a short term expansion of demand however much they might want to. Don't forget many smaller producers of high quality things only target to produce a percentage of expected demand so there will be ability to provide employment for their staff thru the periods when their otherwise talented people might be idle. When demand far outstrips expected ammounts their production may sometimes be behind what they might prefer. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctilux4me Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share #23 Posted January 6, 2011 Michael, Thank you for the welcome note. Believe me, I am not expecting Leica to be a mass market player -their niche position is well understood. I think my frustration was more due to the fact that the M9 has already been on the market for over a year. If this wasn't the case and the lenses weren't available, then I think like others have mentioned, it would be similar situation to ordering a custom car (eg: Morgan) or other unique luxury item - you place your order and get on the wait list. I have the opportunity to purchase a new M9 but I am holding back till the Noctilux is available. If you have any insight on where I can find one, I would be grateful..... Like-Leica! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMacD Posted January 6, 2011 Share #24 Posted January 6, 2011 Noctilux? Buy it used if you can find one. I have a friend who just sold his for a nice profit. I suspect the backlog on Noctilux is years. If you have a wonderful relationship with a dealer who will put you on a list without a deposit, do it now. Otherwise you can go to a huge dealer like B&H and hope that when they show a N in stock, you click "buy" ahead of the other 500 buyers before it reverts to Out of stock a second later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 6, 2011 Share #25 Posted January 6, 2011 If you want to get into the system, waiting for months for a Noctilux doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Surely you'd be better off buying an M9 and a Summicron (used?) now and then trading for a Noctilux once your dealer has sourced one for you. If you look after the lens you won't lose much, if any, cash on a p/ex for a Nocti. Do a deal with the dealer now so that he will guarantee your p/ex when the Nocti shows up. Every day you don't have an M, is a day you will never have it. We only come this way once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kissov Posted January 6, 2011 Share #26 Posted January 6, 2011 I would stay away from the Summarits, I don't think they will hold the usual Leica value. New ones of all focal lengths are plentiful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 7, 2011 Share #27 Posted January 7, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Again Noctilux4me, One other thought about the production by a specialized company of things for a small variable market: When producing the individual components making up the system some components may have greater or lesser lead time because they are built by a limited number of specialized people who cannot always be shifted from one department or even place in a production process to another because of changes in demand. For example in this instance Noctilux production. BTW which one? There are many different Noctiluxes to choose from. The 1966 - 1976 Noctilux 1.2 which today is primarily a collector's not a users lens has components made by a very small team with a limited number of machines neither of whom/which could have been readily expanded to meet unexpected demand. I am not sure what happened w/ the various 1.0 Noctiluxes. I think most likely the same thing as the 1.2 w/ the 0.95. No matter what the demand production capacity cannot be exanded beyond a certain point if parameters of quality, price, etc are to be maintained. BTW: As to where to find one? Haven't got a clue. Best Regards, Michael Another thought even though no one asked: I do 90% maybe more of my photography w/ a 35mm Summicron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 7, 2011 Share #28 Posted January 7, 2011 I would stay away from the Summarits, I don't think they will hold the usual Leica value. New ones of all focal lengths are plentiful. Investors/collectors versus photographers? These are outstanding lenses and, for someone who actually plans to make photos using them, should serve very well. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 7, 2011 Share #29 Posted January 7, 2011 For the OP, keep in mind that half-yearly results from September showed that sales from the Leica Camera Group (cameras, lenses and accessories) more than doubled, up almost 140%. And, according to another statement from Andreas Kaufmann, M9 sales have been more than double initial expectations. Success, especially an unexpected level of success, brings challenges for a niche producer. For another comparison, I remember when wait lists for Harley Davidson motorcycles in the US were up to 3 years at some dealers. Didn't stop buyers and, last I checked, the company was doing quite well. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 7, 2011 Share #30 Posted January 7, 2011 Do you think the average, or even excellent art director or photo editor really knows or cares about the qualities of, for example, the Noctilux (or any version of it)? It's a vanity lens and only serves the owner. THAT is niche. No real pro would be disadvantaged by not having one. The whiners are all collectors, or wannabe amateurs (amateurs meaning those who pursue the craft for the love of it). NICHE! Leica is very healthy for that reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kissov Posted January 7, 2011 Share #31 Posted January 7, 2011 If the Summarits are so great then why are they for sale all over the place and you cannot get a Summicron or Summilux for love or money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 7, 2011 Share #32 Posted January 7, 2011 If the Summarits are so great then why are they for sale all over the place and you cannot get a Summicron or Summilux for love or money. Ignorance and/or arrogance, generally speaking. Reputable sources like E. Puts rate them highly. In fact, he rates the 35 Summarit higher than the 35 Summicron asph considering all factors...Summarit range More importantly, use the search function on the forum and you'll find may here who offer high praise for their Summarits. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 7, 2011 Share #33 Posted January 7, 2011 Ignorance and/or arrogance, generally speaking. Reputable sources like E. Puts rate them highly. In fact, he rates the 35 Summarit higher than the 35 Summicron asph considering all factors...Summarit range Methinks Puts is loosing it. He wrote, "it is certainly true that it is more difficult to ensure extremely tight tolerances when the production runs are small and a high level of manual control is required. It is easier to maintain a high level of quality and consistency in large production runs, because the manufacturing process can be constructed around the mechanics of high volume quality control and the availability of parts that are machined to the required tolerance by dedicated machinery. " Really, the man is out of his league. Statistics does not cause quality differences. I'd be happy to rip his assertion to shreds, but probably not here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kissov Posted January 7, 2011 Share #34 Posted January 7, 2011 Please buy the Summarits then maybe there will be more Crons and Luxes for the rest of us. I hope they will keep their value but I doubt it. Why would you buy a Summarit when for the same price buy a used Summicron. Leica runs on quality and exclusivity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 7, 2011 Share #35 Posted January 7, 2011 I would stay away from the Summarits, I don't think they will hold the usual Leica value. New ones of all focal lengths are plentiful. Since when are lenses or cameras investments? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kissov Posted January 7, 2011 Share #36 Posted January 7, 2011 When the life of the camera is less than two years, "digital rot". Leica glass has always been a good investment and that is more true now than ever. That $7000.00 camera, if your lucky, will be worth half two years from now. That Cron or Lux will hold its value, I hope I'm wrong but I don't think that these Summarits will hold their value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Lea Posted January 7, 2011 Share #37 Posted January 7, 2011 All Leica lenses hold their value well. Look at the prices of all pre-aspherical summicrons, especially 35mm. And what value should you put on being able to use an excellent lens for a while until you get another one? I write as someone who had an excellent 75mm Summarit, which I later sold at a very good price. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 8, 2011 Share #38 Posted January 8, 2011 Really, the man is out of his league. Statistics does not cause quality differences. He doesn’t claim it would, at least not in the assertion you’ve quoted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.