Guest Olof Posted January 22, 2007 Share #21 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have to agree with Sean here there has been requests for this to Leica on implementing a menu item to select your lens in the menu items which would bring in the Cyan lens corrrecting factor for the wide angles. There is also other requests that have been mentioned that may just come to life in future firmware. This camera is far from being fully baked and I am sure leica is looking at and working on other options and corrections for the camera. Â Why should Leica do this ? Their lens coding is patented, so everybody has to buy a Leica lens if he wants to get the benefits from the coded lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Hi Guest Olof, Take a look here Sean Reid's 24/25 mm lens comparisons. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Photoskeptic Posted January 22, 2007 Share #22 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Sean, I suppose the reason I like my D200 is that anything I want to change settings wise is all done with buttons on top of the camera and a thumbwheel. I never have to go to the menu except to format the card. I wish the M8 was like this. However it probably wouldn't stop me from buying the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted January 22, 2007 Share #23 Â Posted January 22, 2007 I think the reason the 1998 24mm was keying the 35/135 frames on the MP/M6/M7 has to do with the 0,58 viewfinder released in 2000. Â At one point, Leica was thinking of offering the 24mm frames in it, and the 35mm was the only frame left alone, because they have removed the 135mm frames. Â Finally, they decided not and the 0,58 is 28/90, 35, 50/75. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted January 22, 2007 Share #24  Posted January 22, 2007 As Guy knows well, I've made detailed suggestions to Leica (in articles, e-mails and phone conferences) that would deal with the following. 1. Faster access to ISO setting. 2. Faster access to EV setting. 3. Faster access to WB setting.   These are all discussed in the M8 review series.    We'll see what happens. <G>  Cheers,  Sean  Just like the RD1 .  Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 22, 2007 Share #25  Posted January 22, 2007 As Guy knows well, I've made detailed suggestions to Leica (in articles, e-mails and phone conferences) that would deal with the following. 1. Faster access to ISO setting. 2. Faster access to EV setting. 3. Faster access to WB setting. 4. A menu option that allows one to specify which lens is mounted on the camera (from the existing 6-bit coding lookup table) so that the lens-specific in-camera corrections can be performed.  These are all discussed in the M8 review series.  We'll see what happens. <G>  Cheers,  Sean  Yes Sean and I have both made several suggestions to Leica on certain features and options for the M8 and we continue to both do that, Sean and i do communicate off line also so a lot that we talk about here does get filtered to leica through his contacts at leica. So the likelyhood of fixes and options in firmware may come to the surface for end users. Giving Leica input from users like us is hopefully valuable to them and also just some more voices saying what may work better and i do think Leica has a there ear out for what is said on this forum. The nice thing about Sean's reviews is there is a record of what is said and testing that has been done by him . So that also gives us a record of what was proposed and what has been done and is a great working document that he has created for the M8 and sort of like what i did on the DMR only a little different in content. So as users we should continue to move forward and come up with idea's and fixes that may benefit us all in the end. Of course not everything we say will be done by leica but good input from all of us will always be postive for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 22, 2007 Share #26 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Why should Leica do this ? Their lens coding is patented, so everybody has to buy a Leica lens if he wants to get the benefits from the coded lenses. Â Sure, and in that case, some people wouldn't buy the M8 at all. I've discussed this at length in the reviews but, in a nutshell, the menu selection for lenses moves the M8 away from being a "closed" system. This benefits: Â 1. Owners of modern Leica lenses who do not want to send their lenses in for coding (or for whom that process is problematic) Â 2. Owners of Leica lenses that are not currently "code-able". Â 3. Owners and potential owners of M and LTM lenses by other makers who would like those lenses to work well on the M8. Â Moving the M8 away from being a closed system will help M8 sales, long and short term. Â I'm not sure how much of the discussion of this aspect you've read here already but you might wonder: "How do we know that the existing codes for various modern Leica lenses will also benefit other lenses?" The answer is that we come to know that by testing hand-coded lenses and I've been doing a lot of that. As a rule, so far, nearly every lens that vignettes as much or more than a given modern lens will benefit from being coded as that lens. Cyan drift varies but it is strongly tied to field of view. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 22, 2007 Share #27 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sean, I suppose the reason I like my D200 is that anything I want to change settings wise is all done with buttons on top of the camera and a thumbwheel. I never have to go to the menu except to format the card. I wish the M8 was like this. However it probably wouldn't stop me from buying the M8. Â Nor me, but there are ways to improve the ergonomics through firmware. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 22, 2007 Share #28  Posted January 22, 2007 Just like the RD1 .  Rex  Maybe, we'll see.  Cheers,  Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 22, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted January 22, 2007 ... I suppose the reason I like my D200 is that ... I never have to go to the menu except to format the card. John-- You can reformat the card with the external buttons as well--see p 14 of English-language instructions. Â Â Yes, I coined ... "DRF" which hasn't caught on much yet. Sean-- Perhaps 'dRF' would be more elegant and indicative of the term's derivation. (I prefer 'dSLR' for the same reason.) Â Also: Leica has always referred to their pre-bayonet lenses as 'screw mount,' not 'thread mount.' (US usage; German 'Schraubfassung.') A number of people today are using the acronym LTM, though Leica's term is 'SM.' We troglodytes prefer 'SM.' Â Respectfully, --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 22, 2007 Share #30 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Hi Howard, Â Point taken. The problem is that SM is not as often used as LTM so people are less likely to know what one is talking about. I may switch usage anyway though. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 22, 2007 Share #31 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Sean-- Thanks for the response. Â Where did "LTM" come from? Leica in North America has always written "SM," though the term was usually prounced 'screw mount,' I believe. The adapters are "screw to bayonet adapters" in Leica literature. Â Did CV/Zeiss come up with the term LTM? Falsifying history, changing terms? Rude of them, I say! Â Why change? Is this an attempt at making a distinction with Pentax-mount lenses? Â --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 22, 2007 Share #32 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Hi Howard, Â I don't know. But LTM is more specific than SM because there are other screw mounts and only one Leica Thread Mount. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C. Posted January 22, 2007 Share #33 Â Posted January 22, 2007 Sure, and in that case, some people wouldn't buy the M8 at all. I've discussed this at length in the reviews but, in a nutshell, the menu selection for lenses moves the M8 away from being a "closed" system. This benefits:Â 1. Owners of modern Leica lenses who do not want to send their lenses in for coding (or for whom that process is problematic) Â 2. Owners of Leica lenses that are not currently "code-able". Â 3. Owners and potential owners of M and LTM lenses by other makers who would like those lenses to work well on the M8. Â Moving the M8 away from being a closed system will help M8 sales, long and short term. Â Sean, Â I agree completely, and if you haven't done so already, please point out to Leica management that this issue is somewhat analogous to Apple having stubbornly suffered for years with a closed system, and how they have benefitted from opening up in recent years. Â Regards, Â Tony C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 23, 2007 Share #34  Posted January 23, 2007 Sean, I agree completely, and if you haven't done so already, please point out to Leica management that this issue is somewhat analogous to Apple having stubbornly suffered for years with a closed system, and how they have benefitted from opening up in recent years.  Regards,  Tony C.  I've argued the closed system problems to them several times directly and in the reviews. Many key people at Leica read RR and they're very aware of where I'm coming from with respect to the limitations of a "closed system". Unlike many companies, however, Leica certainly does listen to and consider feedback from customers, reviewers, etc.  Cheers,  Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 23, 2007 Share #35 Â Posted January 23, 2007 A very nice review, thank you, Sean. However, there is one remark in there that I don't agree with and that is about the (non)use of IR filters in B&W photography on the M8. I will admit that the shift in grayscale is irrelevant, as B&W is an abstraction of the colourscale of the subject and thus any judgement is a matter of taste, but IR does introduce CA on the image in black and white photography as well. The focus shift is in fact quite pronounced. So a black and white photograph with IR filter will be sharper than one without. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 23, 2007 Share #36 Â Posted January 23, 2007 LTM is more specific than SM because there are other screw mounts and only one Leica Thread Mount. Agreed, but how about compromise "LSM"? Â Certainly not so important a matter as closed vs open system, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 23, 2007 Share #37 Â Posted January 23, 2007 A very nice review, thank you, Sean. However, there is one remark in there that I don't agree with and that is about the (non)use of IR filters in B&W photography on the M8. I will admit that the shift in grayscale is irrelevant, as B&W is an abstraction of the colourscale of the subject and thus any judgement is a matter of taste, but IR does introduce CA on the image in black and white photography as well. The focus shift is in fact quite pronounced. So a black and white photograph with IR filter will be sharper than one without. Â Hi Jaap, Â Thanks. My feeling is that 486 filters are very much an optional choice for B&W work with the M8. If you get a chance to look at Part 4 of the M8 review again, you'll see a discussion of B&W work with and without a 486 filter. I prefer the look of the files in B&W without a filter and so I don't use the 486s for B&W work with the M8. Some will prefer the look with the filter. What I wrote in the 24/25s review was: Â "As I've discussed in previous articles, one of the many advantages of working with the M8 in Black and White is that one does not necessarily need to use IR-cut filters." Â Thanks for the feedback. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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